United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

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SkyScraperKid
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SkyScraperKid » October 25th, 2017, 10:55 am

SurlyLHT wrote:
October 24th, 2017, 3:47 pm
It appears Sheik's Cave is underneath Downtown. There are a bunch of links on Google talking about it. Sounds like it's mostly destroyed and not much left. It'll be awesome is somehow one of these caves or tunnels were opened up for use. I know the tunnels beneath the Pillsbury A Mill had some talk of being made public.

" While constructing the NMT around 1900, work crews broke through into several natural cavities beneath downtown and elsewhere. While most were relatively small voids, the one beneath the then Farmer's and Mechanic's Bank was quite large, spanning half a block, and reportedly contained many flowing streams, pools, and a waterfall dubbed “Little Minnehaha Falls” pouring from a ceiling fissure"

http://drainfreak.com/df/twincities/schieks/
Yes, turn the caves underneath downtown into farmer market space! Sounds like an outstanding idea...

amiller92
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby amiller92 » October 26th, 2017, 9:24 am

SurlyLHT wrote:
October 24th, 2017, 3:47 pm
It appears Sheik's Cave is underneath Downtown. There are a bunch of links on Google talking about it. Sounds like it's mostly destroyed and not much left. It'll be awesome is somehow one of these caves or tunnels were opened up for use. I know the tunnels beneath the Pillsbury A Mill had some talk of being made public.

" While constructing the NMT around 1900, work crews broke through into several natural cavities beneath downtown and elsewhere. While most were relatively small voids, the one beneath the then Farmer's and Mechanic's Bank was quite large, spanning half a block, and reportedly contained many flowing streams, pools, and a waterfall dubbed “Little Minnehaha Falls” pouring from a ceiling fissure"

http://drainfreak.com/df/twincities/schieks/
Huh. Never knew that Sheik's strip club (now called something else, in the former Farmer's and Mechanic's Bank, the older one, not the one that's now the Westin) was a historic reference.


jtoemke
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby jtoemke » November 13th, 2017, 3:14 pm

Does it mention a height increase? Is this an addition to the apartments or more of a swap? Sorry, locked article.

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » November 13th, 2017, 3:25 pm

Somehow I have access even though I'm not a subscriber.

First, the anchor is RBC. Second, The extension is until March. Third, the floor plan is for misc 1-3, office 4-16, hotel 17-27, condos 28-30. (We lose 6 stories). Fourth given if they land RBC they'll start construction in Fall 2017.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... n-for.html

Does this still count as "iconic,"? At this point it's not terribly taller than the Opus project and it's nearby neighbors.

David Greene
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby David Greene » November 13th, 2017, 3:50 pm

Time to re-bid this. If the market isn't there, it isn't there. We need something special here.

EOst
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby EOst » November 13th, 2017, 3:51 pm

Only 3 stories of condos? That seems weird. At that point, why bother?

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » November 13th, 2017, 3:53 pm

I had the same thought with regards to there only being 3 floors of condos. I'm sure they're is some decent profit on them however. I find it odd that UP can only get 3 floors of housing, but Alatus, Opus and Shamrock have towers of housing.

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Nathan
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Nathan » November 13th, 2017, 4:37 pm

Is there an updated rendering? Height doesn't determine if something is iconic but it seems to me the plan has gotten more and more generic.

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » November 13th, 2017, 4:45 pm

Nathan wrote:
November 13th, 2017, 4:37 pm
Is there an updated rendering? Height doesn't determine if something is iconic but it seems to me the plan has gotten more and more generic.
Oddly, the rendering The Business Journal had on the article was one of the first ones before the last major revision. The best we have our the renderings on their site which haven't changed since the latest news. (I just checked.)

*Correction* On their main page the have a somewhat updated rendering. It looks pretty similar to before with a spire and triangular rooftop. I'm guess their trying say those elements would be iconic?*

HiawathaGuy
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby HiawathaGuy » November 13th, 2017, 5:16 pm

Can SOMETHING please punch above 30 stories.... :(

go4guy
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby go4guy » November 13th, 2017, 6:14 pm

3 stories of condos seems like a huge mistake. Being in a Four Seasons project is a huge asset for a condo project. This is just the developer playing it as safe as possible. They don't want to have to be responsible for selling anything by the time they break ground. Just completely gutless. And I thought United was a big time developer. That is embarassing.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby MNdible » November 13th, 2017, 6:26 pm

A couple of thoughts:

1. There are sweet spots in terms of building heights, where things like code requirements, structural needs, and building systems come into alignment. 30 stories +/- seems to be one of those sweet spots, and so if you're going to push past that, you'd better have a good pro forma to support it.

2. If Four Seasons really is the hotelier on the project (or another luxury brand), and if they're planning on sharing building amenities with the condo units, we're probably talking about the condos all being large, luxury penthouse type units -- not a bunch of studio or 1BR units. In which case, three stories is probably about right.

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Tiller
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Tiller » November 13th, 2017, 6:28 pm

It's time to rebid this. It's like they're trying to avoid contributing to downtown Minneapolis.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » November 13th, 2017, 6:53 pm

Although the height reduction is really disappointing. It also stands out to me that if the RBC deal falls through and they go to the Ryan Downtown East tower this project is pretty much dead. I'm really surprised the Pohlads couldn't pull something more off here. Maybe they'll had more condos at a later date? But why reduce the height to 30 unless that was a somewhat solid estimate? The Alatus tower somehow is expected to work at 40.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Silophant » November 13th, 2017, 9:43 pm

Remember that office floor-to-floor heights are significantly greater than residential. 13 floors of office may be about the same overall height as the 19 floors of apartments it's replacing.

Not that I'd shed any tears about RBC going to DTE and this project falling through entirely.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 14th, 2017, 10:54 am

Yeah, I'm guessing the height will be fairly constant, if not grow a little. Office floors are up to twice as large as residential and hotel floors.

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » November 14th, 2017, 11:27 am

Still on their site...maybe Frey will pressure for UP to up their game or for a rebid if they ask for another extension.

http://www.duvalcompanies.com/#/031nicollet/

grant1simons2
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby grant1simons2 » November 14th, 2017, 1:03 pm

Ah yes. If funding for a 30 story office building won't work here, a 90 story one totally will. Blame the banks friends.

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » November 14th, 2017, 1:20 pm

grant1simons2 wrote:
November 14th, 2017, 1:03 pm
Ah yes. If funding for a 30 story office building won't work here, a 90 story one totally will. Blame the banks friends.
I think the lack of funding, may have more to do with UP then the lot given all the other towers of a similar size getting built.


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