Gateway Park

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Aville_37
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Gateway Park

Postby Aville_37 » November 27th, 2012, 6:10 pm

Couldn't find a thread for plans for a new park north of the library downtown. Here is a recent editorial piece discussing all the ins and outs of getting a new park built.

http://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2012/ ... ntown-park

612transplant
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby 612transplant » November 27th, 2012, 6:50 pm

Although I understand it is a bit tongue-in-cheek, the premise of "every great city has one" doesn't really work, because:

#1. I could name *many* global cities that do not have signature downtown parks, and
#2. Not all of the "thousands" of parks the article cites in Paris and London are in downtown Paris or London (if two such things even exist). That would be pretty much the same as saying that the Chain-of-Lakes or Wirth Park already is our signature downtown park, no?

Additionally, I think that this site is insignificantly closer to the core of downtown (from a pedestrian's perspective) than Loring/Sculpture Garden. If Rybak ever becomes president, I would expect him in front of the Spoonbridge and Cherry. Also, it is further from the residential core of downtown, which seems to be another big premise mentioned in the article (parks attractiveness to downtown residents).

But, I like the plan, if done right. The render in the article makes me a bit nervous. A signature downtown parks needs a feature that is actually signature, not just trees and benches. A fountain, for instance. I think we should be wasting less of the old Met on testicle sculptures on Hennepin, and actually reconstruct one of the arches in this proposed downtown park....

John
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby John » November 27th, 2012, 9:10 pm

612transplant wrote:But, I like the plan, if done right. The render in the article makes me a bit nervous. A signature downtown parks needs a feature that is actually signature, not just trees and benches. A fountain, for instance. I think we should be wasting less of the old Met on testicle sculptures on Hennepin, and actually reconstruct one of the arches in this proposed downtown park....
We actually already have a signature park downtown called "Peavey Plaza". And now that it will be preserved it will undoubtedly continue to be one our best outdoor landscaped spaces downtown. I agree the rendering is a bit generic, but I think it must be just a concept drawing. You're right in saying it will need something visually exciting to attract people, and that will take big money and investment. And like you said, if done right it could be a great catalyst for further development around the site.

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Nick
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby Nick » November 27th, 2012, 9:16 pm

John wrote:
612transplant wrote:But, I like the plan, if done right. The render in the article makes me a bit nervous. A signature downtown parks needs a feature that is actually signature, not just trees and benches. A fountain, for instance. I think we should be wasting less of the old Met on testicle sculptures on Hennepin, and actually reconstruct one of the arches in this proposed downtown park....
We actually already have a signature park downtown called "Peavey Plaza". And now that it will be preserved it will undoubtedly continue to be one our best outdoor landscaped spaces downtown. I agree the rendering is a bit generic, but I think it must be just a concept drawing. You're right in saying it will need something visually exciting to attract people, and that will take big money and investment. And like you said, if done right it could be a great catalyst for further development around the site.
Well, it's more of a plaza. Hearty outdoorsy Minnesotans like a green space, I reckon. Even if it'd be grey for seven months.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 27th, 2012, 9:24 pm

I'd rather have a couple of parks -- a couple of blocks east of 5th Ave, a block or two north of 5th St & Nicollet, and a block or two in North Loop -- than one giant "Gateway Park" that meanders from the CBD to the river and doesn't really have great access to most of the businesses or people in downtown. I'd even be okay with a big green space on or near Block E or the block between 9th and 10th Streets & 2nd and 3rd Aves.

I'm not a fan of this plan, personally.

lordmoke
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby lordmoke » November 27th, 2012, 10:39 pm

Here's how this plan needs to work:
-Disregard all plans for a park on the block between Nicollet-Marquette-3rd-4th. The city can sell this block to a developer to raise money for the park.

-Close Nicollet completely between 3rd and Washington, connecting the "Library Park" to Cancer Survivors, and make it one new park (with a new name.)

-Build a stylish pedestrian bridge similar to Millennium Park's BP Bridge in Chicago over Washington at about where the Nicollet intersection currently is, connecting it to the old Gateway Park and fountains.

-Finally, have the Nicollet Streetcar (which will be using Hennepin to cross the river) use a small area of the FTA-required lot to cross between Hennepin and Nicollet, where it turns down the new pedestrian mall, creating a lovely thoroughfare anchored by the newly preserved Peavy Plaza and the expanded Gateway Park.

-Profit.

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Le Sueur
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby Le Sueur » November 28th, 2012, 12:10 am

^^^^^^^^^^This.

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Re: Gateway Park

Postby mulad » November 28th, 2012, 12:12 am

lordmoke wrote:-Finally, have the Nicollet Streetcar (which will be using Hennepin to cross the river) use a small area of the FTA-required lot to cross between Hennepin and Nicollet, where it turns down the new pedestrian mall, creating a lovely thoroughfare anchored by the newly preserved Peavy Plaza and the expanded Gateway Park.
Someone's thinking diagonally

(which is good)

helsinki
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby helsinki » November 28th, 2012, 1:02 am

Jane Jacobs had a good point when she said that parks require the proper surrounding environment to succeed. They can fail miserably otherwise and become magnets for crime. Although I like the idea of a gateway park (ironic that this is the exact same location as the old park), I do wonder whether the critical mass of pedestrians exists to keep this park safe and inviting all day (not just a spot for office workers to eat lunch on a sunny warm day) - especially if it is just a big lawn with no other activities offered.

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Nathan
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby Nathan » November 28th, 2012, 1:35 am

I would love to see the Hen/3rd corner be elevated 1-2 Stories. Grass on top, and a glassy facade on the street fronts. Could be a cafe, or whatever (make this a little more 365) I imagine it being a little bit like lincoln center in NYC...

Image

Image

Image

(model)
Image

Our block is considerably bigger than this space, but I just imagine something with a little bit of dynamics on that corner.

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Re: Gateway Park

Postby John » November 28th, 2012, 10:36 am

^^^I like some of the concepts of the Lincoln Center plaza for the Nicollet Mall site. The commercial space below the park could be a retail node in conjunction with Whole Foods. Would give opportunities for some new retail stores to enter the downtown market and be in closer proximity to the booming residential population nearby.

mattaudio
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby mattaudio » November 28th, 2012, 10:36 am

I agree with the other posters that it would be much better to use the block to the north of the Library for a park. It would also serve a transit function, as I could imagine someday having LRT connecting to four segments (two lines) crossing the Hennepin bridge, streetcars on Washington connecting to 4 or 5 segments, and streetcars on Nicollet connecting to four segments.... http://goo.gl/maps/ZDPKx

MNdible
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby MNdible » December 3rd, 2012, 6:04 pm

Apparently, the city has finally found a way to unencumber the Nicollet Hotel block. This would seem to be a good first step towards getting a park built there.

Aville_37
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby Aville_37 » December 3rd, 2012, 11:18 pm

MNdible wrote:Apparently, the city has finally found a way to unencumber the Nicollet Hotel block. This would seem to be a good first step towards getting a park built there.
Good news!

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Re: Gateway Park

Postby mullen » December 4th, 2012, 7:20 am

Nice find. i hope the park project finally happens. there is some nice synergy starting to happen on north nicollet. it only took like 25 years. better late than never.

mattaudio
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby mattaudio » December 4th, 2012, 9:53 am

So is this the block just north of the library between Hennepin and Nicollet?

It seems like the best option would be to build a layover facility underneath some sort of new development between 3rd/4th and Nicollet/Marquette.

MNdible
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby MNdible » December 4th, 2012, 9:56 am

Per the link above, apparently the best option is to put the layover facility in the existing Gateway Ramp.

mattaudio
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby mattaudio » December 4th, 2012, 10:03 am

Oh good. I'd like to see a bus network that requires less downtown layovers in the future. It seems like such a wasted use of bus resources and (most importantly) bus storage space. But I understand that layovers are necessary for buffering schedule delays/inconsistency and also crew rest. Yet I'm sure there's a way we could do it outside the CBD.

Would a gateway park go in the block to the *north* or *east* of the library?

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Nathan
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby Nathan » December 4th, 2012, 10:15 am

mattaudio wrote:Oh good. I'd like to see a bus network that requires less downtown layovers in the future. It seems like such a wasted use of bus resources and (most importantly) bus storage space. But I understand that layovers are necessary for buffering schedule delays/inconsistency and also crew rest. Yet I'm sure there's a way we could do it outside the CBD.

Would a gateway park go in the block to the *north* or *east* of the library?
North, and carry on north to where the Post Office ramp will hopefully soon be demolished!

mattaudio
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Re: Gateway Park

Postby mattaudio » December 4th, 2012, 10:31 am

Great! And maybe someday this will be good ROW to connect transit on/under Nicollet Mall to the Hennepin bridge. http://goo.gl/maps/ZDPKx


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