DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

[MNdible]

Do we expect a 700 footer? Based on all of this "campus" talk I keep envisioning 2-4 15 to 25 story buildings, otherwise they wouldn't purchase 2 blocks (if that's in fact what they end up doing). That's partly why I hope the Hennepin & 10th St site gets chosen for Wellls, but there are other risidual benefits of Wells locating to DTE and potentially kick-starting the expansion of downtown in that direction.

I certainly don't expect a 700 footer. I think you're on the right track with your campus concept, and I'd also wager that whoever referenced the Ameriprise service center on 3rd Avenue is probably pretty close to the mark. Especially for back office functions, when they're located downtown, large floor plates are key -- corner offices aren't. If you're envisioning a tall, skinny tower, I think you're going to be disappointed.

[Didier]

Thanks for the pics DFPegg. That angle really gives a good perspective of the vast wasteland in that space now.

[woofner]

My understanding is that the stadium commission is obligated by legislation to build the parking ramps for Zygi -- he's not building them himself. So, to the extent that parking at this location meets the intent of the legislation, I'm not sure there's much he could do about it.

Sure, but he could still get a piece of the pie. The legislation calls for 2500 spaces (I'm barfing in my mouth right now), and on the stupid site plan thingy it says that Zygi's development will have a 450 space ramp. In other words a smallish ramp. It seems likely that Ryan could build a decent size office building and residential tower, and there would still be plenty of parking pork to go around.

[MNdible]

Yes, I expect you're right. 2500 spots is a beast -- anybody know off the top of their heads what the ABC ramps are?

[helsinki]

Yes, I expect you're right. 2500 spots is a beast -- anybody know off the top of their heads what the ABC ramps are?

According to the Twins, the ABC/Hawthorne ramps have 7,000 spaces. There are 25,000 total spaces downtown.

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/min/ball ... arking.jsp

Adding another 2,500 (10% of the downtown total) here is bananas.

They city should have been an ardent supporter of the Arden Hills site.

[m b p]

Because I like to fantasize and imagine what things might look like (just for giggles), I did my best to scale in 50' height intervals to show how dramatically buildings would affect the skyline at different heights. So much heavy conversation when so much is still up in the air!

I took 5 minutes to create a 700 ft model tower in google sketchup. I then inserted the model into google earth. It is free and very easy to do... if anyone wants. It's a fun way to pretend... or look forward to the future... or whatever.

Do we expect a 700 footer? Based on all of this "campus" talk I keep envisioning 2-4 15 to 25 story buildings, otherwise they wouldn't purchase 2 blocks (if that's in fact what they end up doing). That's partly why I hope the Hennepin & 10th St site gets chosen for Wellls, but there are other risidual benefits of Wells locating to DTE and potentially kick-starting the expansion of downtown in that direction.

no. I'm not expecting... just dreaming. But... a bank did purchase the land. Banks do like to build towers. We'll just have to see.

[John]

no. I'm not expecting... just dreaming. But... a bank did purchase the land. Banks do like to build towers. We'll just have to see.

While I doubt that Wells Fargo will build a tower that upstages or competes with their 57 story headquarters on Marquette, I do think its credible to say that Ryan will consider a tower for part of the project...perhaps about 40 stories. I'm sure they will look at building something prominent on at least one parcel to give the four block project a focal point and visibility on the skyline. I would be very surprised if they designed it like the "corporate campus" model you see on a highway interchange.

[min-chi-cbus]

Do we expect a 700 footer? Based on all of this "campus" talk I keep envisioning 2-4 15 to 25 story buildings, otherwise they wouldn't purchase 2 blocks (if that's in fact what they end up doing). That's partly why I hope the Hennepin & 10th St site gets chosen for Wellls, but there are other risidual benefits of Wells locating to DTE and potentially kick-starting the expansion of downtown in that direction.

I certainly don't expect a 700 footer. I think you're on the right track with your campus concept, and I'd also wager that whoever referenced the Ameriprise service center on 3rd Avenue is probably pretty close to the mark. Especially for back office functions, when they're located downtown, large floor plates are key -- corner offices aren't. If you're envisioning a tall, skinny tower, I think you're going to be disappointed.

That was also me......I REALLY hope they don't do something like that!

[Didier]

Or maybe they'll go crazy and do something like this over both blocks.

[min-chi-cbus]

Is that Indy?

[Nathan]

Or maybe they'll go crazy and do something like this over both blocks.

That would be awesome... and a totally cool link between the Guthrie and New Stadium.

I don't necessarily see a new tallest or even 700 footer here, but IF Ryan implied that they wanted two blocks for parks, to incorporate a fair amount of parking, residential and close to a million square feet of office on the other two blocks, I'd like to think it would have to have some decent impact... I think it's just a good period of time for fantasy.

[Nathan]

Is that Indy?

Yeah, if only I'm pretty sure it's a Beijing TV station or something.

[go4guy]

no. I'm not expecting... just dreaming. But... a bank did purchase the land. Banks do like to build towers. We'll just have to see.

I am not sure that would be the case here. I think banks like to do that because they can put their name on the top for everyone to see and for advertising. Can't do that here, so not sure they would make a tall building any kind of priority. But hopefully I am wrong.

[Nathan]

no. I'm not expecting... just dreaming. But... a bank did purchase the land. Banks do like to build towers. We'll just have to see.

I am not sure that would be the case here. I think banks like to do that because they can put their name on the top for everyone to see and for advertising. Can't do that here, so not sure they would make a tall building any kind of priority. But hopefully I am wrong.

A lot of the general public still call Capella Tower 'US Bank', and everyone knows the Wells Fargo tower by name, so I wouldn't discredit the kind of advertising an iconic building creates with or without the marquee. A moderately tall building would be standing essentially on it's own in DTE, and would get a lot of visual attention until the rest of the area caught up. But, how nice is it that buildings can't have giant logos on them here!?

[woofner]

I would be shocked if the City upended 40 years of policy aimed at clustering the tallest buildings in the heart of the core. I would say 25 stories tops here, and I think even that's optimistic.

[Nathan]

I would be shocked if the City upended 40 years of policy aimed at clustering the tallest buildings in the heart of the core. I would say 25 stories tops here, and I think even that's optimistic.

Personally, I wonder how the city could not see this as 'core'? It's only 2 blocks (diagonally) from Capella so not about to heavily skew the skyline, and along the Blue/Green line (shouldn't that be a 'core' corridor?). Also, there are only 5ish reasonable locations for tall/super tall buildings in the core (I'd prefer those sorts of buildings in the core). I personally (obviously not a person who has pull with the city) can't see why they wouldn't let the 400-600 foot buildings start moving eastward, expanding and densifying the skyline. Especially if they are putting any stock in DTE being the future of development for Minneapolis.

[nasa35]

I would be shocked if the City upended 40 years of policy aimed at clustering the tallest buildings in the heart of the core. I would say 25 stories tops here, and I think even that's optimistic.

Personally, I wonder how the city could not see this as 'core'? It's only 2 blocks (diagonally) from Capella so not about to heavily skew the skyline, and along the Blue/Green line (shouldn't that be a 'core' corridor?). Also, there are only 5ish reasonable locations for tall/super tall buildings in the core (I'd prefer those sorts of buildings in the core). I personally (obviously not a person who has pull with the city) can't see why they wouldn't let the 400-600 foot buildings start moving eastward, expanding and densifying the skyline. Especially if they are putting any stock in DTE being the future of development for Minneapolis.

this^

[woofner]

Personally, I wonder how the city could not see this as 'core'?

If I were to guess, I'd say probably because of their understanding of geography, politics, and history.

[mnmike]

Yeah, my guess would also be 25 floors tops...probably less. Who knows though, maybe we will be surprised!

As for the eariler conversation...I still catch my self calling the Wells Fargo tower the Norwest tower! And I am not even that old:)

[MNdible]

Yes, just to do some quick back of the envelope math: let's say the floorplate is around 200'x200', which is 40,000 sf per floor. So 40,000 sf x 25 floors gets you to the desired 1,000,000 square feet, if you set aside for a moment gross vs. net leasable areas.

For reference, a downtown Minneapolis block is 400'x400' to the centerline of the street, subtract an average ROW of 80' and you get 320'x320' of buildable lot, or 102,400 sf. So a 200'x200' tower would cover about 40% of the block.

Now, if they were adventurous, I could see them pursuing a mixed use tower that would add some residential or hotel atop this, but it makes everything more complicated and expensive and adds one more moving part to what is likely an already very fussy project.