DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

[nasa35]

If I'm commuting from just about any suburb to downtown Minneapolis, I don't really give a rat's behind about proximity to LRT. Proximity to the Marq2 express bus corridor is way more important now and for many years to come. Even with Southwest and Bottineau online, the vast majority of transit riders will still reach downtown on a bus. That's a significant jog from Marq2 over to this new hypothetical office building. Anywhere from .3 mi as the crow flies to over .5 depending on the angle of the dangle. Yeah, not that far at all, but these are suburbanites we're talking about. They only walk at the gym (after driving there).

(Not that I'm Mr. Pro-skyways, but) It looks like the skyway system doesn't really continue east of 3rd Avenue, halted by the "government wall" of HennCo, City Hall, and the Court building. Numerous new connections would have to be made to meaningfully connect these new buildings to the core, where all of the lunch crowd businesses are located.

I guess I'm backing up redisciple's point that this isn't "the core"

Of course I'm not suggesting that this shouldn't happen, just providing some food for thought as to how transit commuters will get here.

Talk about clueless. Suburbanites walk constantly. They have brains even. I heard some of them can even talk.

[twincitizen]

I apologize for the snark, it wasn't meant to encite anything. I was just pointing out that most people don't like to walk for transportation. They'll gladly walk/run for exercise, but walking 2 blocks to get from A-B without a car is seen as unacceptable. My main point was the distance this new developent will be from the Marq2 corridor and the core of the skyway system (where one would eat and shop if working downtown).

[TWA]

Sorry for bringing this up again, but do we know if Wells Fargo would be bringing new workers downtown? Or is the majority of the proposed space to be filled by consolidating existing rental space already in the CBD?

[twincitizen]

Agreed. I'm curious what this means for the Wells Fargo Home Mortgage facility on 35W in West Phillips.

[MplsTodd]

I know that Wells Fargo has substantial space in both the Baker Block as well as Northstar Center, so possibly they may relocate some of those workers. Since Wells Fargo just signed a large lease in the western suburbs at Metropointe, its unlikely the employees would be moved in from the western burbs. Wells Fargo has lots of locations throughout the Twin Cities, so perhaps it would be a mix of downtown and other locations.

I agree with TwinCitizen's remark that this development does mark a major change for downtown. Traditionally, the city has encouraged high-density offices to be within the core, so their employees would mutually reinforce downtown's retail, restaurants and hotels. However, although this is outside the core, I think that the LRT service provides good access to the core, and will allow for an extension of the business district eastward, just like Hines proposed offices near Ford Center would allow for an extension of the business district westward.

I really hope they don't plan to extend the skyways all the way to the stadium. Even with 1 million sf of office and 400+ residential units, I don't see this area having the density to support businesses along both the skyway and the street level. Better to focus on the street.

My final point is that I doubt you'd see a tower of 50-70 stories, like Nasa suggests. I'd be happy to be wrong! However, I'm pretty sure that the cost to build increases significantly as the building height increases, due to need for more space devoted to elevator cores as well as greater structural support. Unless this is a new corporate HQ for WF, and they would move out of their namesake Pelli tower, would they really spend the $ needed to build such an expensive tower?
I'll be happy if they build a couple 12-story buildings and maybe a 24-story centerpiece tower.

[Nordeastmpls]

I agree. I don't see this as a location for anything that will rival the 3 biggest. However a handfull of buildings would really be some nice infill and bulk up the skyline to the East. I believe the WF offices that will be located here are back office and WF Trust employees who are currently in the Baker block, Northstar block and Fifth Street Towers. My brother works for WF Mortgage and they are planning on relocating some of their employees from the Honeywell campus out to St. Louis Park, so I don't think the Star Tribune blocks will include any WF Mortgage.

[mattaudio]

I'd be fine with a skyway on the following conditions: Goes through the Armory building which would be converted to an indoor marketplace, and this new project would have very visible and public connections transitioning the street and skyway levels. I'd also prefer to see some improvement of where this would connect to the existing network, likely in the megaparking block between Thrivent and the Gov't Center. Sprucing up the first level of that parking ramp with some sidewalk-enhancing use would be a worthwhile compromise.

[mullen]

wells fargo corporate headquarters is in san francisco...and i agree i don't see anything taller than 40 floors, if that.

[lordmoke]

My dad works for Wells in 100 Washington, and if I recall correctly, their lease is up soon there and won't be renewed. He had said that they were talking about Arden Hills, but that was before this proposal. The kinds of departments in that space seem to match up with the types they've floated around the idea of moving here (back end/ data), so I'd say that bodes well for some of these rumors.

[nordeast homer]

I agree with MplsTodd, the spaces that WF has in Baker, Northstar, and 5th Street towers are dated and probably a little disfucntional given the amount of time they've been in those spaces. Realligning these spaces in new buildings would probably look pretty advantageous to them. I'd be happy with a couple of 25 - 30 story towers here versus one taller tower, but I wouldn't complain either way.

[nasa35]

I apologize for the snark, it wasn't meant to encite anything. I was just pointing out that most people don't like to walk for transportation. They'll gladly walk/run for exercise, but walking 2 blocks to get from A-B without a car is seen as unacceptable. My main point was the distance this new developent will be from the Marq2 corridor and the core of the skyway system (where one would eat and shop if working downtown).

I guess i would disagree just a bit. We're finally going to extend the core both south and north(or east to west)....we are about to have A REAL city, one that covers miles, not blocks. You put 3600 workers two blocks out, you'll see the next block north constructed on and then there's a continuous loop now.

[nasa35]

wells fargo corporate headquarters is in san francisco...and i agree i don't see anything taller than 40 floors, if that.

You guys realize we're talking about a bank, with a huge ego, right? US Bank is headquartered here. Emotion and attitude have influence. The opposite has resulted in the Brooklyn Park Target projects.

[Viktor Vaughn]

You guys realize we're talking about a bank, with a huge ego, right?

Wait, what? Wells Fargo is a bank? I thought they were a stagecoach company...

[mnmike]

I apologize for the snark, it wasn't meant to encite anything. I was just pointing out that most people don't like to walk for transportation. They'll gladly walk/run for exercise, but walking 2 blocks to get from A-B without a car is seen as unacceptable. My main point was the distance this new developent will be from the Marq2 corridor and the core of the skyway system (where one would eat and shop if working downtown).

I guess i would disagree just a bit. We're finally going to extend the core both south and north(or east to west)....we are about to have A REAL city, one that covers miles, not blocks. You put 3600 workers two blocks out, you'll see the next block north constructed on and then there's a continuous loop now.

What do you mean a continuous loop? Are you calling downtown "loop" again? Loop is not another word for downtown! Only in Chicago is the downtown called the loop(because of the loop created by the train). I believe the North Loop neighborhood in Minneapolis is called that because of the northern spur of train tracks that used to be there (where riverstation is). I just keep seeing that, and it irritates me for some reason. lol. Otherwise, I appreciate your insight, I hope you are right about a significant tower. Please excuse me, so many things are pet peeves for me What do you think a timeline would be on this project? Is it months out, years?

[nasa35]

You guys realize we're talking about a bank, with a huge ego, right?

Wait, what? Wells Fargo is a bank? I thought they were a stagecoach company...

that they are.

[nasa35]

I apologize for the snark, it wasn't meant to encite anything. I was just pointing out that most people don't like to walk for transportation. They'll gladly walk/run for exercise, but walking 2 blocks to get from A-B without a car is seen as unacceptable. My main point was the distance this new developent will be from the Marq2 corridor and the core of the skyway system (where one would eat and shop if working downtown).

I guess i would disagree just a bit. We're finally going to extend the core both south and north(or east to west)....we are about to have A REAL city, one that covers miles, not blocks. You put 3600 workers two blocks out, you'll see the next block north constructed on and then there's a continuous loop now.

What do you mean a continuous loop? Are you calling downtown "loop" again? Loop is not another word for downtown! Only in Chicago is the downtown called the loop(because of the loop created by the train). I believe the North Loop neighborhood in Minneapolis is called that because of the northern spur of train tracks that used to be there (where riverstation is). I just keep seeing that, and it irritates me for some reason. lol. Otherwise, I appreciate your insight, I hope you are right about a significant tower. Please excuse me, so many things are pet peeves for me What do you think a timeline would be on this project? Is it months out, years?

Sorry...EXTEND the downtown farther out on both ends at the same time.

Remember, it's Ryan....and they are S-L-O-W. I'd say we should see solid concepts by July. Sorry.

[mnmike]

That is quicker than I would have thought, I would be pleased with that

[nasa35]

That is quicker than I would have thought, I would be pleased with that

Yeah, but that still means 16months+ before we see a shovel.

[mattaudio]

What do you mean a continuous loop? Are you calling downtown "loop" again? Loop is not another word for downtown!

Ruh roh! http://goo.gl/maps/cwnMZ

[mnmike]

Blah blah blah...google it. All you will find is Chicago loop, and a downtown loop bus tour of manhattan. I questioned myself, but found that loop is not indeed a word for downtown.