DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

[mattaudio]

Seems like the 1-story portion of the jail, facing 5th Ave, could be redeveloped into some sort of use that addresses the sidewalk. I thankfully have no knowledge of what that part of the building is. Anyone know?
Obviously not as much of a need as building blocks that are surface parking, but it would really help improve 5th Ave if it wasn't a blank wall. And to think this sort of sidewalk hostility used to be accepted.

[Andrew_F]

As many challenges as there are for the site, I hope they don't skimp on density and take up too much space with what they build this time around-- the area has major potential for a variety of uses due to its proximity to the core, the new stadium, and the Mill District. And for every ugly parking ramp, there are some great buildings ready to be reused. Both the Armory and 700 S 3rd St are among some of the coolest historic buildings downtown.

[helsinki]

The use of the jail is not really an issue. First, it is a jail, not a prison. This is where they hold people awaiting trial. It is not where they warehouse people doing hard time. Second, it's not like the inmates get to stroll around the vicinity. The only presumably deleterious effect from their presence would be the visitors they would receive. Aside from the obvious prejudice latent in that assumption, it just seems bogus. There are tons of courts in this area bringing in people who need to go to court, ie there are a bunch of marginalized people around city hall, Hennepin County gov 't center, and the fed court all the time just as a result of the nature of their function - the jail isn't the magnet here. The jail is located here to eliminate transportation and security costs incurred moving defendants from jail to court. Makes a lot of sense, I think.

Also, you would think that the presence of the courts and jail would be seen as a boon to attracting affluent urban residents since a million lawyers could walk to work from here.

The real challenges were identified already: fortress parking ramps and hostile auto oriented streetscapes. While the surface parking is ugly now, we can probably safely assume that this would disappear if the land were developed. The other two problems would not.

[FISHMANPET]

The problem with the jail isn't really that it's a jail, but how it helps create, along with the parking ramps, that separates DTE from DTW and creates a pedestrian barrier. Maybe it could somehow become more pedestrian friendly, but there has to be all sorts of problem with retail space built up against a jail (such as there not being enough room for something like that in this case).

[trkaiser]

I'm anxious to hear what this one is all about:
http://finance-commerce.com/2013/01/rya ... -downtown/

[min-chi-cbus]

Seems like the 1-story portion of the jail, facing 5th Ave, could be redeveloped into some sort of use that addresses the sidewalk. I thankfully have no knowledge of what that part of the building is. Anyone know?
Obviously not as much of a need as building blocks that are surface parking, but it would really help improve 5th Ave if it wasn't a blank wall. And to think this sort of sidewalk hostility used to be accepted.

What about a tripple-pane, bullet-proof glass wall that looks into the jail itself? Now THAT would be interesting window shopping!!

[min-chi-cbus]

I'm anxious to hear what this one is all about:
http://finance-commerce.com/2013/01/rya ... -downtown/

Wasn't this essentially described in the recent-most article about the TIF money for Wells' development? It was only one of a variety of proposals...

[mulad]

I'm anxious to hear what this one is all about:
http://finance-commerce.com/2013/01/rya ... -downtown/

Nothing terribly specific there, but here are a couple of the main points:

Ryan Cos. are looking at "multiple mixed-use development scenarios" for the blocks, according to a company VP. Their plans are still very preliminary, but more details will come out in 60-90 days. Since Ryan is a commercial developer, they'll probably seek out partnerships with other companies to do residential work. One real-estate broker quoted in the article feels that the site is big enough that development will probably happen in phases over the course of several years.

There was some discussion of the rent per square foot would need to be $22 to $24 for new construction, while "B+" rents in downtown Minneapolis are only around $15/ft[sup]2[/sup] today. However, while the vacancy rate for class B is around 17% and class A is around 11%, it sounds like the available office space is fairly fragmented. The price premium might be worthwhile if someone (like Wells Fargo) were to come in with a need for 200,000+ square feet of contiguous space

[mattaudio]

I bet some of the other people here who have experience with companies can chime in, but it seems like banks historically can get around some of those issues. They develop office space, then sell to a developer in exchange for a long-term lease. Thus they finance space, and they get to benefit from the space for a long time. I can imagine this could bridge the gap between new construction costs and the going B+/A- rents downtown, especially given the advantage (for both parties) with such a large contiguous complex.

[TWA]

I bet some of the other people here who have experience with companies can chime in, but it seems like banks historically can get around some of those issues. They develop office space, then sell to a developer in exchange for a long-term lease. Thus they finance space, and they get to benefit from the space for a long time. I can imagine this could bridge the gap between new construction costs and the going B+/A- rents downtown, especially given the advantage (for both parties) with such a large contiguous complex.

Well we at least know that they will get a favorable loan rate...

Would wells fargo be the sole owners of the property? Or would they just be signing a long term lease on a new development done by Ryan?

[min-chi-cbus]

B space is only going to get cheaper and more vacant IMO as more consolidation continues to take place. It's the A space that's at a premium right now.

[Nick]

Quick point about DTE green space: There's already a bit of green space over near here. The half block on south side of the Government Center is green space and almost completely surrounded by high rise development. Boyfriend works across the street from the patch, and as we drove by this morning, I asked if he'd ever gone over to it. He didn't realize it was there.

Admittedly, neither of us are very outdoorsy, but I thought it was a good story.

[min-chi-cbus]

Quick point about DTE green space: There's already a bit of green space over near here. The half block on south side of the Government Center is green space and almost completely surrounded by high rise development. Boyfriend works across the street from the patch, and as we drove by this morning, I asked if he'd ever gone over to it. He didn't realize it was there.

Admittedly, neither of us are very outdoorsy, but I thought it was a good story.

That was a good story! I especially liked the part about the hidden green space!!

I think anyone putting in any kind of new park/green space/public space is going to really have to think hard and figure out a way to make this space open, inviting, accessible, and cohesive with the existing infrastructure. It done right it could really be an amazing opportunity to provide much-needed CBD public space and also potentially extend the CBD to the East like the city wants.

[612transplant]

There are requirements, I believe in New York, for developers to add greenspace when they build towers....perhaps after a certain height or square footage, although I'm not sure about the terms. There is such a requirement in Pittsburgh, too-- PNC is wrapping some greenspace into its new "green HQ" development downtown, because the city stipulated that it had to. No such code exists in Minneapolis, to my knowledge...

[TWA]

A while back I heard the greenspace was going to be 2 blocks in size. Not sure if that is still the case or if it was just talk.

I would like to see some sort of focal point in it. I think that creating a new "famous" or popular/iconic/photographic site would bring people to the park. Giant fountain? Art installation? Hope that once the plans for the site are announced they let locals voice their opinion in what they would like to see in it

[John21]

I heard this one is going to be 2 17-20 story buildings and a 10 story parking ramp.

[mplser]

=
I would like to see some sort of focal point in it. I think that creating a new "famous" or popular/iconic/photographic site would bring people to the park. Giant fountain? Art installation? Hope that once the plans for the site are announced they let locals voice their opinion in what they would like to see in it

I agree. Sort of like the Bean in Millenium park

[seanrichardryan]

Please, no faux-cal points.

[woofner]

A 10 story parking ramp sure won't be a focal point in that neighborhood. It'll be like bro i'm in the 10 story parking ramp and bro will be like which 10 story parking ramp?

[min-chi-cbus]

I heard this one is going to be 2 17-20 story buildings and a 10 story parking ramp.

I can believe it!