DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

[Didier]

The carrot and stick approach is great for promoting change, but let's not kid ourselves about our current infrastructure. The LRT stopping in front of this building is great -- for the small percentage of the population that will live on one of these LRT lines. Downtown can't drastically expand without some significant expansion of parking.

[Nathan]

The carrot and stick approach is great for promoting change, but let's not kid ourselves about our current infrastructure. The LRT stopping in front of this building is great -- for the small percentage of the population that will live on one of these LRT lines. Downtown can't drastically expand without some significant expansion of parking.

But isn't it the case that this campus isn't adding any new jobs to DT? These people start using the ramps close to DTE, and people using those ramps start using the ones closer to their jobs more in the Core/there will be a lot of vacant office space around for a while... I get that some parking is necessary, but I just disagree with how much. Once the other parts of DTE start expanding, maybe we'll need more, but technically there won't be any more people working downtown than there are now...

[John21]

Keep in mind parking facilities connected to the Vikings stadium must be built and are infact required by law. If Wells Fargo, their developer and the city can make maximum use of parking that will be built, I think it's a huge win.

Apparently they're trying to get the Vikings to help pay for the ramp. Good luck with that one.

[VAStationDude]

Well the stadium authority which is funded by the state, city and football team must build a parking facility.

[Didier]

But isn't it the case that this campus isn't adding any new jobs to DT?

Based on the conjecture on here I was assuming several jobs would be coming in from the suburbs. But either way, if 100 employees from from the mall to this new development, the hope would be that 100 more employees filled in the old space.

It seems like a no-brainer for all parties to find a way to combine parking for this development and the stadium. Which means it probably won't happen!

[nasa35]

The carrot and stick approach is great for promoting change, but let's not kid ourselves about our current infrastructure. The LRT stopping in front of this building is great -- for the small percentage of the population that will live on one of these LRT lines. Downtown can't drastically expand without some significant expansion of parking.

Be prepared to be deleted. That's not what you're supposed to say.

[Chauncey87]

Clicked a webpage tab during a very well written post that was just about to be posted now I lost it.

So I will just lay out the gist since I would like to shair in list form now.

1. ten stories does anybody have any proof it will be this tall or taller? The hight of this does not bother me in the least. Around the world there are buildings where you would not even notice the building has above ground parking unless you have really looked hard at it. With one of them already in MPLS.
http://www.startribune.com/business/104540464.html

2. No I do not think the Vikings and Wells Fargo are going to tag team a garage on this site. As pretty much everyone of us seen the same site plans will see that already there is a large ramp being considered just to the north of the site. A SITE the Wilfs already own.

3. What is with the stigma of parking garages? They serve the needs of every major city on earth plus while not the best use of land it is for sure better then surface parking!

3a So would even a ten+ story parking garage be able to handle the same amount of cars parked in the four block surface lots?
Even a full block ten story ramp seems to small for how many surface spaces have been lost. I really do not know how many spaces are there now and how many will be built to replace what they tear apart.

[seanrichardryan]

I don't mind parking, as long at it is NOT another Gateway, Haaf or Leamington ramp. What a waste of a city block!! Why not a 15 story ramp with a smaller footprint.

[PhilmerPhil]

So as I keep bringing up and all the defenders are ignoring, am I the only one that sees mega parking ramps, no matter how well designed they are, as traffic generators that will kill the streetlife and walkability not in its design, but in the fact that it will lead to hundreds of cars spilling into and out of it and creating streetscapes that make urban living uncomfortable.

[Andrew_F]

I guess I don't see the issue really. I walk around in gridlock fairly often and most of the time I don't notice. I'd prefer cars to be locked up on Washington than zipping by at 35mph. Now if we're talking roadway configuration, obviously more cars leads to more resistance to adding protected bike lanes, ect, but I think we're talking about a neighborhood that will have a pretty substantial residential population soon, which will be perfectly capable of doing their own lobbying regarding sidewalk width, planters, ect when time comes to rebuild streets. Garage entrances do piss me off, but at this point for a huge Class-A development, it's the reality.

I just don't think it's fair to expect this to happen without a big parking component.

[VAStationDude]

Phil, a ramp in this area will be built for the stadium. If the city and Wells Fargo can get use out of that ramp more than 15 days a year, it will be a huge victory. I know trashing parking, no matter the context, is what all the kool kids do. I don't like or use parking downtown either (last Sunday was the first time I've driven downtown in a year+) but I realize the context of this ramp.

[mnmike]

Yeah, What Daperp said...I understand that more parking COULD lead to resistance in narrowing streets, adding bike lanes, widening sidewalks and such...but I can't really go along with the argument that more cars on the street inherently leads to a less urban neighborhood. Show me one major city that doesn't have gridlocked streets coexisting with dense residential neighborhoods.

[MNdible]

Show me one major city that doesn't have gridlocked streets coexisting with dense residential neighborhoods.

Mike, obviously you haven't been to Portland. The Dream of the 90's is Alive there.

I know trashing parking, no matter the context, is what all the kool kids do.

Sho 'nuff. You can make any topic about parking, and if you can't, you're just not trying hard enough.

[min-chi-cbus]

I don't mind parking, as long at it is NOT another Gateway, Haaf or Leamington ramp. What a waste of a city block!! Why not a 15 story ramp with a smaller footprint.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[min-chi-cbus]

So as I keep bringing up and all the defenders are ignoring, am I the only one that sees mega parking ramps, no matter how well designed they are, as traffic generators that will kill the streetlife and walkability not in its design, but in the fact that it will lead to hundreds of cars spilling into and out of it and creating streetscapes that make urban living uncomfortable.

Traffic and walkability are seemingly mutually exclusive. I haven't heard anybody complain that the constant gridlock on 5th Ave in Manhattan or Michigan Ave in Chicago hinders their ability to walk along those streets. HIGH-SPEED traffic can hinder walkability I think, but the type of traffic we're describing here is more of the gridlock variety, especially when the word "volume" is being thrown around.

That being said, what irks me about having a parking spot for every employee is that it disincentivizes the mass transit options that exist and that the city/county/state continue to invest in. By making parking accessible and affordable, it negates these other ventures. A free market capitalist might say that competition is a good thing, but Mother Nature (for one) might argue otherwise. I think that the most efficient means of commuting should be the highest priority, so in this case that means buses and trains should have priority over ramps.

[Tyler]

Yeah, What Daperp said...I understand that more parking COULD lead to resistance in narrowing streets, adding bike lanes, widening sidewalks and such...but I can't really go along with the argument that more cars on the street inherently leads to a less urban neighborhood. Show me one major city that doesn't have gridlocked streets coexisting with dense residential neighborhoods.

This. My favorite cities all have crazy traffic and tons of parking ramps. What they don't have is a surface parking wasteland steps from the core.

[mnmike]

I know trashing parking, no matter the context, is what all the kool kids do.

Sho 'nuff. You can make any topic about parking, and if you can't, you're just not trying hard enough.

I need a like button for this.

Traffic and walkability are seemingly mutually exclusive. I haven't heard anybody complain that the constant gridlock on 5th Ave in Manhattan or Michigan Ave in Chicago hinders their ability to walk along those streets. HIGH-SPEED traffic can hinder walkability I think, but the type of traffic we're describing here is more of the gridlock variety, especially when the word "volume" is being thrown around.

Exactly.

[Tcmetro]

I wish they would just go with underground parking, but I suppose that would be too expensive.

All my most detested buildings are those with the parking ramp on the lower floors. McGladery (sic) Plaza, Residence Inn, Northstar Center, Metro Apartments, and Centre Village basically make up the list of buildings I wouldn't mind having a wrecking ball it.

That being said, I love the location of this project because it breaks up the awful wall of parking ramps east of 5th and the two block wide swath of parking lots between Park and 5th.

Is the 10-story ramp really necessary when Metro Transit is building thousands upon thousands of parking spaces in the suburbs and allowing basically free fare (Metropass) on their parking shuttles (Express Buses)?

My last question is about Skyway connections. Does anyone think these new buildings would be Skyway connected? It could maybe even be hooked up to the Juvenile Court and HCMC.

[mattaudio]

I wonder if there's any way to make it so the floor plates of parking ramps under buildings could be converted to other uses in the future. Obviously not the parts with actual ramps between levels, but seems to me like it would be wise to allow for this in design.

[Viktor Vaughn]

I really doubt the buildings will be skyway connected. The city seems very interested in containing the skyway system to the downtown core, as called for in the Downtown East / Elliot Park master plan. Then again, the stadium bill mandates the parking ramp be skyway/tunnel connected to the stadium, so if this project will share parking with the stadium maybe this development will have it's own mini-skyway system.