DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

[Aville_37]

I am curious as to who will be designing the park.

[David Greene]

Read and weep.

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 44811.html

"Other options discussed at Thursday’s committee meeting included blocking off some downtown streets on gamedays to allow for tailgating and building a massive deck over I-35W to connect the stadium site to the Cedar-Riverside neighborhood, where more parking could be made available."

Are they seriously talking about building a deck of PARKING over 35W? Or are they saying the parking would be in Cedar Riverside? Either way it severely restricts further development of the neighborhood.

[twincitizen]

^This probably belongs in the stadium thread rather than Strib Blocks.

Do we have a thread for discussion about where Strib will move? I will post something in "Downtown Office Market" if not.

[mister.shoes]

Are they seriously talking about building a deck of PARKING over 35W? Or are they saying the parking would be in Cedar Riverside? Either way it severely restricts further development of the neighborhood.

I read it as the parking would be in Cedar Riverside and the deck over 35W would provide access to said parking. Most interesting to me is that a deck over 35W is being considered at all. It would almost *have* to involve removal of the 3rd/4th cloverleaf to be workable, no?

[David Greene]

I debated where to put it but people are complaining about the Ryan development kicking out tailgaters so I figured this was the best place.

[mattaudio]

I would actually be in favor of decking over 35W, especially if it reconnected the grids similar to designs mister.shoes, ajfroggie, and I have worked on. Why? Even if they are surface lots for the next decade, eventually people will realize that the "new" real estate is worth much more than car storage.

Tailgating in existing neighborhoods? Absolutely not.

[talindsay]

[quote=mattaudio]I would actually be in favor of decking over 35W, especially if it reconnected the grids similar to designs mister.shoes, ajfroggie, and I have worked on. Why? Even if they are surface lots for the next decade, eventually people will realize that the "new" real estate is worth much more than car storage.

Tailgating in existing neighborhoods? Absolutely not.[/quote]
Agreed.

[Wedgeguy]

Do we really need a DTE 2 behind the Metrodome. We need the deck to connect Cedar-Riverside so people can get to town. But I think they are just putting parking to keep Cedar-Riverside residents out of downtown. BAD PLAN!

[ECtransplant]

If they build more parking on top of a 35W deck, that increase in supply and competition should help make the existing surface parking lots in DTE relatively less lucrative compared to other uses for the land, making development on the lots easier/more likely. And as mattaudio said, even the lots on top of 35 could eventually be developed.

edit: grammar/syntax

[Wedgeguy]

If they build more parking on top of a 35W deck, that increase in supply and competition should help make the existing surface parking lots in DTE relatively less lucrative compared to other uses for the land, making development on the lots easier/more likely. And as mattaudio said, even the lots on top of 35 could eventually be developed.

edit: grammar/syntax

I just see a wasted land of asphalt that will do nothing to bring Cedar-Riverside closer to rejoining Downtown.

[stock345]

Besides actual asphalt rather than an interstate trench?

[matt91486]

Yes, while parking lots on top of the freeway wouldn't be anywhere near an ideal use of the air rights, it takes care of the costs of decking. That doesn't preclude something better from being there in the future.

[RailBaronYarr]

So let me get this straight. Ideas being tossed around to accommodate Vikings tailgaters for 8 home games a year include closing off streets and decking over the freeway to build parking. 65,000 fans + media + staff come to downtown for Vikings games vs 165,000 people work downtown on a given day. How are we not hearing people (and the county) scream about the ensuing congestion and emergency vehicle delays due to all these closed streets? How will the city function!?

I don't know that it's a good tradeoff to deck over for parking lots. It doesn't guarantee anything gets developed west of the stadium and is only marginally better than the trench itself. I think if the city/state decked over and immediately sold the air rights at no profit there'd be plenty of hungry developers willing to build (one of the main reasons existing lots aren't being developed is speculation by the owners - the city wouldn't be doing that). Build the lots and they become something people will fight to keep (the Save Dinkytowners will have to keep busy, after all...)

[nordeast homer]

The thing I think you guys are forgetting is reality. Putting parking garages over the freeway is a waste of time (right now) because it is too far away from the central business district. There are not enough jobs or events in the area to make the investment worth while. The A, B, and C ramps are 3 blocks away from 100,000 jobs; anything built over 35W might support a tenth of that at best. That's not to say it won't be a good investment in 30 years, but for the present it is a pipe dream.

[Minneboy]

What if the city just sold the rights to a builder to build a ramp or decking over the interstate. We'd then see how the market would react to this. Not in favor of the city spending money on speculation. I'd also have a mandate that the decking must include a pedestrian/bike path to Cedar/Riverside area and incorporate greenery.

[Gregory]

So let me get this straight. Ideas being tossed around to accommodate Vikings tailgaters for 8 home games a year include closing off streets and decking over the freeway to build parking. 65,000 fans + media + staff come to downtown for Vikings games vs 165,000 people work downtown on a given day. How are we not hearing people (and the county) scream about the ensuing congestion and emergency vehicle delays due to all these closed streets? How will the city function!?

I don't know that it's a good tradeoff to deck over for parking lots. It doesn't guarantee anything gets developed west of the stadium and is only marginally better than the trench itself. I think if the city/state decked over and immediately sold the air rights at no profit there'd be plenty of hungry developers willing to build (one of the main reasons existing lots aren't being developed is speculation by the owners - the city wouldn't be doing that). Build the lots and they become something people will fight to keep (the Save Dinkytowners will have to keep busy, after all...)

It's a football stadium; thousands of people tailgate, that's what they do at football games. AT EVERY STADIUM.

[Snelbian]

Lots of people jump off bridges, even some of my friends. That doesn't mean we should dedicate vast swaths of valuable downtown real estate to bridges that end in midair to facilitate the desires of a tiny minority.

[RailBaronYarr]

What if the city just sold the rights to a builder to build a ramp or decking over the interstate. We'd then see how the market would react to this. Not in favor of the city spending money on speculation. I'd also have a mandate that the decking must include a pedestrian/bike path to Cedar/Riverside area and incorporate greenery.

Not a bad idea, but then you get a situation where one developer would be the one holding large chunks of land. Yes, they could be interested in just decking over then parceling/selling it themselves, but the more likely scenario would be a large firm (like Mortenson or Ryan) who would do the decking AND build up on top of it. Not that it's always bad, but my gut is that we'd see more incremental, small stuff go up from smaller developers.

It's a football stadium; thousands of people tailgate, that's what they do at football games. AT EVERY STADIUM.

How do all those fans attend baseball games in parks like Wrigley, Fenway, Yankee Stadium, Target Field, etc etc and enjoy beer/food pre/post-game? It's 8 games a year. If tailgating (in the way we all think of it - large surface lots) was so important and lucrative, Zygi would be buying the land himself to dedicate for that purpose. The city should not do it for them.

[Snelbian]

We are told that stadiums downtown mean customers at restaurants and bars downtown. We are also told that thousands need space dedicated to drinking and eating their own food outside. Pick one.

[Minneboy]

We are told that stadiums downtown mean customers at restaurants and bars downtown. We are also told that thousands need space dedicated to drinking and eating their own food outside. Pick one.

I'm sure spectators go to the restaurants and bars to some degree locally but most of that comes from those fans visiting from out of town and don't have their cars to tailgate. When you factor in the possibility of playoff games and the potential Super Bowl there are more then just 8 games.