DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

[Chef]

You see a dump and I see Art Deco and Moderne. I follow architectural styles so to those that do the same, this is an example that we happen to think is worth saving. Funny how 30 years ago those hot warehouses were considered a waste land and should best be bulldozed. That is your opinion of the Star Trib building and you can have it. Others of us see a diamond in the rough that can be repurposed into something pretty fantastic with the right developer.

I follow architecture too, and have all my life. I went to art school and work in an aesthetic profession. I like Art Deco, I like Art Moderne. This building is not an attractive example of either. We shouldn't preserve a building just because it can be grouped within a style, you can do that with every building ever built. We should preserve buildings because they are attractive, this one is not.

Thirty years ago those warehouses were considered classics, it was the bean counters who wanted them bulldozed - not regular people and not people who like pretty buildings.

[alleycat]

I wonder if it would be feasible to move the Star Tribune building over one block, where the standalone residential / prison screen building is proposed. It could then be converted to housing or some other usage.

I'm no expert, but if they can move the Shubert, they can move this.

[spearson]

I wonder if it would be feasible to move the Star Tribune building over one block, where the standalone residential / prison screen building is proposed. It could then be converted to housing or some other usage.

I'm no expert, but if they can move the Shubert, they can move this.

The Shubert was a fraction of the size...

[alleycat]

I wonder if it would be feasible to move the Star Tribune building over one block, where the standalone residential / prison screen building is proposed. It could then be converted to housing or some other usage.

I'm no expert, but if they can move the Shubert, they can move this.

The Shubert was a fraction of the size...

Very true. It's much more likely that the facade would be saved versus the entire structure anyways. If we are going to go into the hypothetical, the building is really a few disparate buildings even along Portland. You'd likely be able to move the distinct parts of the building.

[Nathan]

You see a dump and I see Art Deco and Moderne. I follow architectural styles so to those that do the same, this is an example that we happen to think is worth saving. Funny how 30 years ago those hot warehouses were considered a waste land and should best be bulldozed. That is your opinion of the Star Trib building and you can have it. Others of us see a diamond in the rough that can be repurposed into something pretty fantastic with the right developer.

I follow architecture too, and have all my life. I went to art school and work in an aesthetic profession. I like Art Deco, I like Art Moderne. This building is not an attractive example of either. We shouldn't preserve a building just because it can be grouped within a style, you can do that with every building ever built. We should preserve buildings because they are attractive, this one is not.

Thirty years ago those warehouses were considered classics, it was the bean counters who wanted them bulldozed - not regular people and not people who like pretty buildings.

I understand that you're saying you think it's ugly and not a pretty 1920s glam and glitz version of deco, but that's because it's from a period that wasn't glam and glitz. it's a transitional facade from an era that we don't have many examples of. that's why it should be preserved not because you or people don't personally think it's not pretty enough. it's too say hey wow, look what happened to architecture in the forties. it's the timeline you get walking the streets. and I personally don't want to have to take my future children to nyc or Chicago to have to show them that complete cycle.

[seanrichardryan]

I found this ad in an old directory today. It really shows the graphic composition of the facade.

[Mdcastle]

I'm not sure just saving the arch is worthwhile because the dark and light bands make a lot of the character of the building. At the famous Danvers Hospital, even though the building was solid and historic, the developers tore down everything but the facade so they could start from scratch and stick build apartments behind it.

[RailBaronYarr]

This was reported in the Vikings Stadium thread, but the Vikings are donating $1m for the construction of the park. In exchange, they get exclusive use of the park 10 days a year (through eternity?). http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 117738.pdf

The MSFA will have use of the easterly block for up to forty days per year. The Vikings will have use of the entire park during Vikings games days and up to ten additional days per year. The MSFA and the Vikings can restrict access to certain specific areas of the park on their specified event days; nevertheless, the general public will have access to the balance of the park during these events. The MSFA and the Vikings will be responsible for all event day expenses attributable to their events

[go4guy]

Is anyone willing to wager that this "donation" will also be used as a bargaining chip to ensure the city doesnt allow certain Wells Fargo signage on the new buildings?

[Rich]

Interesting theory, but I don’t know if this has much to do with signage. I’m thinking the Vikings probably just want to reserve a chunk of the park wherein only refreshments provided by Zygi are served. People are going to be spending money in the area on game days and the Vikings want some of that action.

[go4guy]

So this isnt even a donation, they are renting the park. To have exclusive rights for 10 days a year for the lifetime of the stadium. They are then renting the park for VERY cheap. Not really that good of a deal for the city.

[RailBaronYarr]

So this isnt even a donation, they are renting the park. To have exclusive rights for 20 days a year (every game + 10 additional days) for the lifetime of the stadium. They are then renting the park for VERY cheap. Not really that good of a deal for the city.

Exactly. If you count the NPV of the donation relative to the lifetime of the stadium, this is a sweet deal for the Wilfs in getting exclusive rights on prime real-estate to perform economic activity. If you amortize this out using a 4% rate for only 30 years, they're paying $2,865 for each day they use it (assuming 20x a year). I'd say that's a pretty good deal.

[Rich]

I assume the Vikings would never want the park for more than several hours on any given day. For comparison, if you wanted to reserve all 8 picnic shelters in Minnehaha Park for 6 hours it’d cost you $900.

[RailBaronYarr]

It's a good reference point. But to be fair, Minnehaha Park is not in nearly as prime location as this park will be, won't have access to 60,000 fans on gamedays willing to spend money, and renting 8 shelters as a property-tax paying citizen isn't the same as complete exclusivity for the whole park for a major corporation. Also, the UofM allows tailgating 6 hours before gametime and for 4 hours after the end. It's not inconceivable that the Vikings would capitalize on this space for around 9 hours on a gameday, but that's pure speculation on my part

A different reference (not saying it's more accurate) is that Hubert's Bar (parcel = 0.18 acres) pays $30,164 a year in property taxes. Averaged out, that's $82.60 for every day with a Vikings game. Or, $459/acre. Depends on how big you assume the park will be (does it include both sides of the LRT stop, for example), but with 2/3 of the western block, the full middle block, and half of the LRT block, the Vikes' payment comes in at $450/acre for 20 days a year (only for the 30 year period, though).

Not saying rental of parks is equivalent to property taxes, but the amount they're paying does seem closer to reality than the eye test. However, considering the $0 the stadium pays the county/city, this would seem like a good opportunity for Minneapolis to ask for an "assessment" of some amount with no special rights compared to any other vendors who want to sell liquor/food in a public park on gamedays.

[seanrichardryan]

What I said in the Stadium thread:

That's it?? That will buy you a nice jungle gym, or a set of public restrooms.

It's unlikely they will only use the park for a few hours on the scheduled days. Look at the current plaza- items are assembled days in advance of a Vikings game and there are semi-permanent tents that never disappear. All of the portable fencing for crowd control and liquor control zones will likely be laying around all year, awaiting the next private event.

[mister.shoes]

The signs! It's all about the signs!
http://www.startribune.com/local/west/2 ... page=1&c=y


...and the park...and the skyways...and 2500 parking spaces...

But the signs!

[Didier]

The article mentions that the city is actively trying to sell development rights above the parking ramp, and that ideally the plans would be set soon so the whole thing could be designed/built simultaneously. I have no idea what kind of potential that has. Anyone?

[seanrichardryan]

The signs! It's all about the signs!
http://www.startribune.com/local/west/2 ... page=1&c=y


...and the park...and the skyways...and 2500 parking spaces...

But the signs!

That is a lot of bi*ching between two over-entitled parties. Their naming rights? Puh leaze.........

[seanrichardryan]

Also important:

One hiccup in the vision for the park has been Park and Portland Avenues, which intersect the two blocks but won’t be closed after objections from key officials at Hennepin County, which owns the streets. A city staff report says they may be instead redesigned to be narrowed and have a more parklike feel.
...

WIN FOR ALL

[fehler]

Ha, spend extra money so the new parking ramp is ready for development to be added on top of it. And after 10 years of no development, plan to place a park on top.