DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
stockman
Block E
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby stockman » October 24th, 2013, 11:30 am

There are many parks that have closed roads that are like what this one will be like - Washington Square in NYC had a road going through it that was closed permanently without any impact. It seems to me what is happening here is that Ryan is not interested as much in the park as they are in their developments, so they won't put up a solid opposition to the county. Perhaps Mpls officials are likewise just trying to make it easy for Ryan to get this thing built. Add to the mix that there aren't any existing residents really to say, "hey, we want these roads closed for a better park." There are good plans as proposed above by Mndibble on closing one road but not the other, or even just doing chokers, chicanes or speed tables here. But in any event, once people start living around here, I would imagine an eventual effort to take street space away in favor of more continuous park space.

Wedgeguy
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Wedgeguy » October 24th, 2013, 3:21 pm

If all the residential in Lowertown can be handled in a square block park, Mears Park, I believe that a block and a half park where different activities are separated will be fine for those few city residence. When you have the river front 6-7 blocks away and Elliot park close by for future residence south of 5th street. We are not building a new version of Central Park. You have a new park planned for north of the Library. You will have to choose wisely what activities you want in your park.

seanrichardryan
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby seanrichardryan » October 27th, 2013, 12:20 am

Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

Minnekid
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Minnekid » October 27th, 2013, 1:53 am

So does that mean the Wells Fargo building would have a lot of space open up for other businesses?

m b p
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby m b p » October 27th, 2013, 3:12 am

does this mean people will start seeing how spending some state and local money (on a new stadium) got a private company to invest half a billion dollars into downtown minneapolis? And that this is just the start? more 100 million to half billion dollar private proposals are coming.

...probably not. :)

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Mdcastle
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Mdcastle » October 27th, 2013, 7:17 pm

Where's Wells Fargo now? Isn't there a lot of room in their tower or do they want something different than what they built?

Not sure if this is at all feasible, but what about lowering Park and Portland about 10 feet and gently curving them towards each other, than taking the dirt and raising the center third, where Park and Portland are nearest to each other making sort of a hump over them?

I'm sure it will be nice, but "Central Park" it isn't. Nor is it Millennium Park, although they could build something like the BP bridge. It's actually nice because you get above the tree line and get a great view of the downtown buildings as well as across the street.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby RailBaronYarr » October 27th, 2013, 8:06 pm

m b p wrote:does this mean people will start seeing how spending some state and local money (on a new stadium) got a private company to invest half a billion dollars into downtown minneapolis? And that this is just the start? more 100 million to half billion dollar private proposals are coming.

...probably not. :)
? Just because a few people tie this project to the stadium means very little in how the stadium actually spurred the development. The Metrodome was supposed to do the same, and 30 years went by with very little. We need to acknowledge that shifting demographics, investments in things like the Blue and Green lines, and development in the Mill District finally tipped the scale to start spilling over to other places. Not the Vikings Stadium.

talindsay
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby talindsay » October 27th, 2013, 9:26 pm

RailBaronYarr wrote:? Just because a few people tie this project to the stadium means very little in how the stadium actually spurred the development. The Metrodome was supposed to do the same, and 30 years went by with very little. We need to acknowledge that shifting demographics, investments in things like the Blue and Green lines, and development in the Mill District finally tipped the scale to start spilling over to other places. Not the Vikings Stadium.
Wow, I was opposed to us paying for this stadium but I think you've got to give credit on this point. At the very least, the Strib wasn't selling its land until the stadium question was settled for good, and so they would have continued to sit on the parcel; a financial package from the state guaranteeing that some new development and investment would be made, and a pile of people putting their political credibility on the line by saying that they wouldn't let the Metrodome wasteland happen again also ensured lots of potential for greased-wheel dealmaking.

This deal isn't big enough by itself to justify the stadium; but it's blindly ignoring the political realities of this deal to claim that the stadium deal isn't directly related to it.

Viktor Vaughn
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Viktor Vaughn » October 28th, 2013, 12:06 am

I'd agree that the Ryan project is tied directly to the stadium. The Star Tribune reported today that Wells Fargo is planning signage that will visible in stadium shots during games. Reportedly, the Vikings aren't too happy about this because they think it will negatively affect their naming rights sale, especially if the sale was to US Bank, a WF competitor.

Slipping your corporate signage into 3 second stadium skyline shots on national tv is a rare example of a football stadium improving the value proposition for adjacent development. This development is also leveraging the stadium legislation mandated parking by saving Ryan money on building parking.

Yet, RBY is right that development here is really only possible due to investment in the Riverfront, the amenities of the Mill District, the junction of our first two light rail lines. and other investments.

The Star Tribune couldn't sell their land until the stadium situation was resolved. I suspect the stadium moving elsewhere would have been the best case scenario for developing downtown east. The EP / DT East neighborhoods had great plans drawn up for a lake and park at the Metrodome site. That scenario (if funded) would have driven a lot of development, especially now that the riverfront neighborhood is jumping Washington.

Football stadiums don't generally make great neighbors. Downtown East is dominated by overbearing institutional uses such as the HCMC, county buildings, and the dome. Even with almost a billion dollars - there's no way to hide it; a football stadium overwhelms the scale of the neighborhood and compromises their neighbors with expansive deadspace.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby min-chi-cbus » October 28th, 2013, 7:52 am

That's why I think the ground level of the stadium should be lined with retail or a park or at least a mural or something that makes it part of the neighborhood the other 357 days of the year. Like how neat would it be if you were a kid and your neighborhood park or stomping ground was where the Vikings won the 2017 Super Bowl? Wow! ;)

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby RailBaronYarr » October 28th, 2013, 8:08 am

Obviously a personal opinion, but I think the replacement of one 65,000 seat stadium serving 8-12 football games with another stadium doing the same with the only difference being a more modern design is not in the top 5 reasons the Strib decided to sell the land. What makes shots on TV with WF's logo any more likely in a world with the Dome vs the new stadium? The only advantage the new stadium gives is the wall of windows that may allow interior panoramas to catch the logo. 8 times a year. It just seems like a confirmation bias from politicians and Vikings stadium supporters that a stadium really, truly spurred development, ignoring previous experiences both here in Minneapolis and across the nation in urban NFL stadiums.

Unity77
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Unity77 » October 28th, 2013, 9:42 am

I see Minneapolis is in the running to host the 2017 NCAA football championship game. This would be huge for the local economy.

nordeast homer
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby nordeast homer » October 28th, 2013, 9:59 am

Similarly to when the dome was first built, you will see a lot of events like that come to town. It's always nice to see our city get the national spotlight for events like that. Even for last nights Vikings game, the game was putrid, but there were some really cool views of Minneapolis. One was from a helecopter just south of 94 at dusk with city all lit up but still a little natural light, looked beautiful. I can't wait to see the views from the east looking west once the stadium and the Wells Fargo buildings are done. Should give a lot more depth to the skyline.

Didier
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Didier » October 28th, 2013, 5:37 pm

Let's stop pretending that the only advantage to Wells Fargo would be the aerial shots at NFL games.

Wedgeguy
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Wedgeguy » October 28th, 2013, 6:11 pm

Didier wrote:Let's stop pretending that the only advantage to Wells Fargo would be the aerial shots at NFL games.
Just having the building itself will allow for signs along Portland, Park, 4th, and 3rd. They may not be at the top of the building, but you will see them as you drive to a parking ramp, stop and look at a map for the skyways, walk along the sidewalks towards the stadium, also can be seen from the light rail from across the park. For those from the area the sight of the towers will put Wells Fargo into you mind, subliminal advertising!

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby min-chi-cbus » October 28th, 2013, 8:25 pm

Why do I get the sudden pang to refinance my mortgage?

Wedgeguy
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Wedgeguy » October 28th, 2013, 8:32 pm

min-chi-cbus wrote:Why do I get the sudden pang to refinance my mortgage?
Here in MPLS that would be Wells Fargo, in Detroit that would be Quicken Loans!!

Moderato
City Center
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Moderato » October 28th, 2013, 10:07 pm

I would be hard pressed to identify a better advertising opportunity in the Twin Cities than the WF Home Mortgage campus as viewed from southbound 35W as you exit downtown. The massive signage is completely impossible to ignore, and thousands upon thousands of commuters see it every day. Better yet, it's just icing on the cake as far as the benefits of that campus are concerned. Same will be true true of these DTE towers.

m b p
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby m b p » October 28th, 2013, 11:51 pm

RailBaronYarr wrote:Obviously a personal opinion, but I think the replacement of one 65,000 seat stadium serving 8-12 football games with another stadium doing the same with the only difference being a more modern design is not in the top 5 reasons the Strib decided to sell the land. What makes shots on TV with WF's logo any more likely in a world with the Dome vs the new stadium? The only advantage the new stadium gives is the wall of windows that may allow interior panoramas to catch the logo. 8 times a year. It just seems like a confirmation bias from politicians and Vikings stadium supporters that a stadium really, truly spurred development, ignoring previous experiences both here in Minneapolis and across the nation in urban NFL stadiums.
Maybe the politicians were telling the truth this time? As someone stated earlier... a lot of people put their reputation on the line.

Your argument is that development of the Mill District was already happening... and was bound to move into the area around the stadium.

My argument is that the new stadium spurred development of the STrib blocks. Nobody wanted to build next to the dome... yet, with the new stadium soon to be under construction, they're doing it now.

The truth is that we're probably both correct. This is a dynamic project... a lot of things needed to happen for this to happen. Without the Mill District, maybe they would find another place to put the stadium. If the Metrodome stayed, maybe Wells Fargo doesn't build an urban corporate campus in the neighborhood.

Didier
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Didier » October 29th, 2013, 12:05 pm

I think it's safe to make three conclusions:

1. Nothing significant was going to happen in Downtown East until the Vikings stadium situation was resolved one way or another.

2. Development in DTE was bound to occur once there was a stadium resolution.

3. That development is almost certainly occurring much faster and at a greater scale because of the billion dollar stadium investment next door.


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