DTE: Wells Fargo, Radisson Red, Edition Apts & Millwright Building

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
beykite
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby beykite » December 14th, 2012, 11:51 am

Tyler wrote:I can't really see anything tall being built here. If they wanted to build something tall it seems to me they'd be looking somewhere else (like the Ritz Block).
Apparently one block alone isn't enough to satisfy their insatiable hunger for downtown property... Dun dun dun.

I don't see why something tall wouldn't be built here, I could see some 500-600 foot building going up. Even if not though I would rather see a mid-rise corporate campus take out 4 surface parking lots then just one tall building. It'd be great though if they incorporated a tower (seeing as its a bank I feel that is rather likely) I think one of the most promising pieces of the article is the part that says TCF, National Marrow Donor Program, Dorsey & Whitney and Faegre Baker Daniels are all looking for office space. Perhaps after this apartment boom we could phase right into an office boom??

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woofner
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby woofner » December 14th, 2012, 12:00 pm

It sounds like they're thinking about doing something like this, which is a terrible idea.

And did anyone catch the mention of the two-block-long skyway in the MinnPost article? I admit that I started out skeptical of this superdevelopment, but they're doing their best to confirm my fears quickly. If public money is going into this, maybe we should listen to the ideas of... I don't know... the people who live there now?
"Who rescued whom!"

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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby min-chi-cbus » December 14th, 2012, 12:05 pm

612transplant wrote:This certainly is exciting. 1 million square feet for Wells Fargo would be significantly sized, even if it is spread out over all four blocks, which I have a hunch is not plan A. As a point of comparison, IDS has 1.4 million square feet of office and retail on one block of the same dimensions. So, if it were spread out over four blocks, that would be like, four 10-15 story buildings? That's *if* Wells Fargo gets all four blocks...

...Bone Marrow listed as a potential client, as well....as is TCF.

I think the perfect spot for a park would be the northwestern block, the "5th and 5th" corner. Could provide for a dramatic walk-up to a redeveloped Armory on game days...
The IDS is on less than half of the block though, at least the tower portion is. It's a fairly skinny building.

Also a point of reference is the Ameriprise location right at the mouth of I-35W, which I believe is 15 floors and 1 million SF. I hope Wells doesn't do anything like that!

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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby min-chi-cbus » December 14th, 2012, 12:08 pm

mnmike wrote:From that post, it sounds like Wells has 1.5 million sq feet of office space leased total in the twin cities. Is that correct? Seems low. In that case they would only be talking about like 300k of office space for this. Either way, this will be great. Though, I can already hear people complaining on here if a building over 20 stories isn't announced. If this does happen, I wouldn't expect a lot of height...but I would certainly be very happy if someting tall is proposed:)
No, that is not correct. They have 1.5 million (or 1 million?) between two OTHER bldgs downtown (Northstar and Baker, if I recall), and not including the Wells Fargo regional HQ in the former Norwest Tower (beige super tall). My guess is that Wells has between 4 and 6 million SF of office space in the metro area. This development would be to combine those offices that are not part of larger mega-sized spaces (like the downtown HQ, the lending branch in the former 3M HQ, and Metropoint on I-394).

Guessimations of Wells Fargo Office Footprint in Metro:

Metropoint: 1 million SF
Bloomington: 500K to 1 million SF
Wells Fargo Regional HQ (downtown): 1.0-1.5 million SF
Wells Fargo Home Mortgage (3M HQ): 1.0-1.5 million SF
Other Large Downtown Offices: 1.0-1.5 million SF
Other Satellite Offices in Metro: 1.0-1.5 million SF

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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby mplsjaromir » December 14th, 2012, 12:14 pm

redisciple wrote:It sounds like they're thinking about doing something like this, which is a terrible idea.

And did anyone catch the mention of the two-block-long skyway in the MinnPost article? I admit that I started out skeptical of this superdevelopment, but they're doing their best to confirm my fears quickly. If public money is going into this, maybe we should listen to the ideas of... I don't know... the people who live there now?
I went by the park in Omaha and it was really nice out, 50-55 degrees out. No one was there during lunchtime. Huge waste of space.

nasa35

Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby nasa35 » December 14th, 2012, 12:16 pm

redisciple wrote:It sounds like they're thinking about doing something like this, which is a terrible idea.

And did anyone catch the mention of the two-block-long skyway in the MinnPost article? I admit that I started out skeptical of this superdevelopment, but they're doing their best to confirm my fears quickly. If public money is going into this, maybe we should listen to the ideas of... I don't know... the people who live there now?
where do you get that from? And no, I don't think residents in A LOOP, should be having much of a say in development unless they have dollars in it.

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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Tyler » December 14th, 2012, 12:37 pm

nasa35 wrote: where do you get that from? And no, I don't think residents in A LOOP, should be having much of a say in development unless they have dollars in it.
What part of "public subsidy" don't you understand?
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby helsinki » December 14th, 2012, 12:47 pm

Man, if they demolish the Strib building (to put up some bland, corporate facade) it would be a crime against the architectural fabric of Downtown. Let us hope they are not so shortsighted.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see development happen here more than anyone else. But there is so much surface parking - if they can't come up with a design that incorporates the current building (or at least the facade, as was already mentioned) then they (Ryan) are morons.

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Nathan
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Nathan » December 14th, 2012, 12:56 pm

helsinki wrote:Man, if they demolish the Strib building (to put up some bland, corporate facade) it would be a crime against the architectural fabric of Downtown. Let us hope they are not so shortsighted.
Totally, what scream to me as great neighborhoods in cities are ones where there is good variation in architecture, being time period and style, there are only a handful of pre 1950's buildings left in DTE to create that kind of environment... I mean neighborhoods like the new parts of the pearl, or south waterfront in PDX are cool, but don't have the kind of depth they would if they had some historic character. Even one building makes it seem like an evolved neighborhood.

I too worry about one developer and all of these blocks. I'd rather see a more organic development, even multiple buildings per block.

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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby seanrichardryan » December 14th, 2012, 12:58 pm

The oddity of the Strib building is that it is actually 3 buildings (or 4) wrapped in a continuous facade. As the paper grew, so did the building. Ryan has done historic rehab before. It should be something they can easily tackle, if they're willing.
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby seanrichardryan » December 14th, 2012, 1:06 pm

After its wrapping, but still not whole.
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby mnmike » December 14th, 2012, 1:11 pm

min-chi-cbus wrote:
mnmike wrote:From that post, it sounds like Wells has 1.5 million sq feet of office space leased total in the twin cities. Is that correct? Seems low. In that case they would only be talking about like 300k of office space for this. Either way, this will be great. Though, I can already hear people complaining on here if a building over 20 stories isn't announced. If this does happen, I wouldn't expect a lot of height...but I would certainly be very happy if someting tall is proposed:)
No, that is not correct. They have 1.5 million (or 1 million?) between two OTHER bldgs downtown (Northstar and Baker, if I recall), and not including the Wells Fargo regional HQ in the former Norwest Tower (beige super tall). My guess is that Wells has between 4 and 6 million SF of office space in the metro area. This development would be to combine those offices that are not part of larger mega-sized spaces (like the downtown HQ, the lending branch in the former 3M HQ, and Metropoint on I-394).

Guessimations of Wells Fargo Office Footprint in Metro:

Metropoint: 1 million SF
Bloomington: 500K to 1 million SF
Wells Fargo Regional HQ (downtown): 1.0-1.5 million SF
Wells Fargo Home Mortgage (3M HQ): 1.0-1.5 million SF
Other Large Downtown Offices: 1.0-1.5 million SF
Other Satellite Offices in Metro: 1.0-1.5 million SF
Thanks for clearing that up...in the Minnpost article, someone is quoted as saying WF has "a million and a half square feet across the metro". I didn't think that was right.

PS, I know I should be upset about the potential loss of that Strib building...I am usually all for saving old buildings. That one is just so ugly to me for some reason. So, while I know it probably should be saved, I won't be sad:) How selfish of me.

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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby mnmike » December 14th, 2012, 1:21 pm

nasa35 wrote:And no, I don't think residents in A LOOP, should be having much of a say in development unless they have dollars in it.
Side note...I am always confused when I see this...I don't think every downtown is called a "Loop", is it? I thought that was just Chicago, because of the trains that make a Loop? Just wondering, because I have seen this a couple times.

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Avian
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Avian » December 14th, 2012, 1:37 pm

I wonder where Zygi Wilf is in all of this? I thought he was hoping to be the big player in this area.

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby min-chi-cbus » December 14th, 2012, 1:44 pm

redisciple wrote:It sounds like they're thinking about doing something like this, which is a terrible idea.

And did anyone catch the mention of the two-block-long skyway in the MinnPost article? I admit that I started out skeptical of this superdevelopment, but they're doing their best to confirm my fears quickly. If public money is going into this, maybe we should listen to the ideas of... I don't know... the people who live there now?
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby min-chi-cbus » December 14th, 2012, 1:48 pm

mnmike wrote:
nasa35 wrote:And no, I don't think residents in A LOOP, should be having much of a say in development unless they have dollars in it.
Side note...I am always confused when I see this...I don't think every downtown is called a "Loop", is it? I thought that was just Chicago, because of the trains that make a Loop? Just wondering, because I have seen this a couple times.
That is exactly why it's called the "loop" in Chicago -- because of the trains.

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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby min-chi-cbus » December 14th, 2012, 1:49 pm

Avian wrote:I wonder where Zygi Wilf is in all of this? I thought he was hoping to be the big player in this area.
There are 4-5 total blocks, and this is just one development. Besides, I believe the Vikings own a few blocks near the stadium, but I'm sure Zigi wouldn't mind one or two of these as well!

nasa35

Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby nasa35 » December 14th, 2012, 2:08 pm

min-chi-cbus wrote:
Avian wrote:I wonder where Zygi Wilf is in all of this? I thought he was hoping to be the big player in this area.
There are 4-5 total blocks, and this is just one development. Besides, I believe the Vikings own a few blocks near the stadium, but I'm sure Zigi wouldn't mind one or two of these as well!
The purchase of the land never actually happened.

nasa35

Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby nasa35 » December 14th, 2012, 2:11 pm

Tyler wrote:
nasa35 wrote: where do you get that from? And no, I don't think residents in A LOOP, should be having much of a say in development unless they have dollars in it.
What part of "public subsidy" don't you understand?
Sorry, you choose to live downtown. It's zoned differently, you're not going to have much of a say and you shouldn't. People in the suburbs always whine about this as well; they live in an area that's also zoned commercial and then whine and complain when a strip mall is built.

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Avian
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Re: Star Tribune Blocks

Postby Avian » December 14th, 2012, 2:15 pm

^If you're talking about residents of downtown having a say then I tend to agree with nasa here. Residents bought into the downtown lifestyle by choice. But the general public should still have a voice when it comes to subsidies.

It occurred to me that this development, along with the stadium and surrounding blocks, means that an area equivalent to nearly 15 city blocks will be transformed within 5 years. That's pretty big.

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”
― Plato


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