4Marq - 400 Marquette Ave (313' - 30 Stories)

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Wedgeguy
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby Wedgeguy » April 19th, 2013, 3:55 pm

Tcmetro wrote:Personally, I like the look better than Nic on 5th, but what are the chances of retail on Marquette? Also, I wonder if this will be skyway connected.

With Marquette being a major loading and unloading point for the transit system there should be plenty of foot traffic for Ground Floor retail

Didier
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby Didier » April 20th, 2013, 11:48 am

I don't know if this picture has been shown here yet, but kind of a cool perspective.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/899/ ... aerial.jpg

(I don't know how to shrink this down to 750 size to embed)

John
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby John » April 20th, 2013, 2:06 pm

Didier wrote:I don't know if this picture has been shown here yet, but kind of a cool perspective.
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/899/ ... aerial.jpg
The building has a good proportions and isn't too squat or stubby. It's actually situated farther away from Nic on Fifth than I thought, so they really don't crowd each other out or compete for attention on that block. The precast concrete grid skeletal frame on the exterior is slimmer, much lighter , and more refined in appearance than the previously mentioned City Center. Should be a winner for downtown.

1200onthemall
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby 1200onthemall » April 22nd, 2013, 7:38 pm

Does anyone know what the projected cost of this building is? I looked thru the post and maybe I missed it but I am not finding the cost.

twincitizen
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby twincitizen » April 22nd, 2013, 7:44 pm

By the looks of this thread, pre- and post-rendering, at least an hour of each of our lives.

ord2msp
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby ord2msp » April 22nd, 2013, 11:20 pm

Developing a parking lot in the middle of downtown with a 30-story residential project gets high marks in my book. This design however is joke. I understand the pragmatic programming and etc, but there are so many missed opportunities to explore skin and exterior conditions. In its current iteration, this building poorly integrates or enhances the urban experience. Drop a building and call it architecture? I think not. At least challenge the existing condition of urban forms and typologies. I find myself truly baffled at the ostensible lack of rigorous explorations as it relates to the design of some of the newer developments in the Twin Cities.

If Minneapolis really wants to compete with other metros (e.g. Seattle, Denver, Chicago), it needs to step its design game up...like yesterday!

Unity77
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby Unity77 » April 22nd, 2013, 11:36 pm

ord2msp wrote:I find myself truly baffled at the ostensible lack of rigorous explorations as it relates to the design of some of the newer developments in the Twin Cities.

If Minneapolis really wants to compete with other metros (e.g. Seattle, Denver, Chicago), it needs to step its design game up...like yesterday!
Preach on. For some reason our local developers have been somewhat inept when it comes to the design of recent developments.

As for competing with other metros, Minneapolis officials are too worried about having to compete with St. Paul and the suburbs to be concerned with the likes of Denver and Seattle.

612transplant
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby 612transplant » April 23rd, 2013, 8:24 am

^^^Well, I think it's safe to say that Minneapolis is "winning the war" with St. Paul and the suburbs.

I think city officials are pretty concerned with competing with other metros. Whenever you see a chart with that ridiculous 70,000 downtown population projection, who are the "peer metros" in the chart with more downtown residents? The ones that are supposed to make us all feel motivated to support residential projects downtown? I remember seeing Denver mentioned in quite a few city plans/press releases, as a matter of fact...

MS3

Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby MS3 » April 23rd, 2013, 9:01 am

Seattle kicks our butt, but not Denver. Our skyline and architectural designed buildings are far above Denver's IMO. For us to compete with Chicago on the other hand would be like a mosquito competing with an Eagle. I think the 1368 lasalle project looks good- a solid design. As far as this project and nic on 5th, I think they are average looking at best.

Tyler
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby Tyler » April 23rd, 2013, 9:03 am

ord2msp wrote: If Minneapolis really wants to compete with other metros (e.g. Seattle, Denver, Chicago), it needs to step its design game up...like yesterday!
Which recent apartment building in Seattle has an elevated design? (Hint:none!) I don't know much about Denver but I assume it's the same. Chicago's a different animal.

And I don't really get your urban experience rant. Do you mean visual experience? Or am I missing something else?
Towns!

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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby lordmoke » April 23rd, 2013, 9:43 am

I hate to contribute to off-topic banter, but Denver's is by far the ugliest skyline of its size in America, if not the world. No one should look to Denver for inspiration in that department.

Chef
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby Chef » April 23rd, 2013, 9:58 am

The developments they have been building in Seattle the last few years are nothing to write home about, our infill is probably a bit better. Actually, if you look at the development forums at SSC it quickly becomes apparent that we are getting top tier infill compared to most of the rest of the country, but I guess it is in our nature to think that our stuff isn't good enough, the insecurity and negativity in this town drives me crazy sometimes.

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trkaiser
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby trkaiser » April 23rd, 2013, 10:04 am

Pretty heavy-handed forum management happening these days... sometimes makes it hard to follow the conversation.

Chef
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby Chef » April 23rd, 2013, 10:10 am

On topic I think this is a nice building, it is not the Taj Mahal but it is not unpleasant to look at. Some people expect every building to be an iconic groundbreaking design, that is unrealistic. No city has that. Most cities, even the great ones, are mostly full of regular buildings that are stylistically similar to each other. 4Marq fits with a lot of what is already here, and wont detract from it.

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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby John » April 23rd, 2013, 10:12 am

I think 4Marq will make a decent wall building along Marquette. They're using some interesting materials and the skeletal frame will give it some distinction. It doesn't really have to be some architecture masterpiece...its an infill high rise of 30 stories. 4th and Marquette is not a high profile intersection. It will have no impact on the skyline.

The apartment boom has had some very good designs. I think of LPM, The Lime, The Walkway, Velo, and Brunsfield as top examples. The major problem is the redundancy of so many of the projects in terms of both scale and style. It would have been nice to see a little more diversity. That said, even most of the cookie cutter projects look fairly good , and give our city much needed urban density and critical mass of people.There has been a significant reduction in our surface parking lots which (in my 35 years of living here) I thought would never happen.

As far as comparing other cities to Minneapolis, they have a similar situation. Some of the development is great, and some is mediocre and not the greatest quality. Seattle's recent development is a mixed bag ( check out Skyscrapercity to see their stick apartment developments: some are really bad).

ord2msp
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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby ord2msp » April 23rd, 2013, 11:48 am

When I mentioned the other metros in my previous post, it wasn't meant to compare skylines nor did it imply that those cities consistently incubate great design. The comparison was meant to invoke a sense that we could do better on the design front overall. We could use an appealing visual aesthetic as a lever to become more competitive with other metro areas. As a Chicago native, I know that Minneapolis is no Chicago. But that shouldn't preclude the city from having some quality design. Also, I know it's not feasible to make every building architecturally iconic, but the current design of this building as it stands barely meets satisfactory design standards IMO. I say this because I have seen some great design come from the Twin Cities and this rendering just doesn't cut it.

When will the Twin Cities get serious about increasing the design bar? Will this region settle for mediocrity for the sake of progress or will it challenge the current landscape and emerge as a region with civic pride in its development projects overall?
Last edited by ord2msp on April 23rd, 2013, 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

nasa35

Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby nasa35 » April 23rd, 2013, 11:50 am

ord2msp wrote:When I mentioned the other metros in my previous post, it wasn't meant to compare skylines nor did it imply that those cities consistently incubate great design. The comparison was meant to invoke a sense that we could do better on the design front overall. We could use an appealing visual aesthetic as a lever to become more competitive with other metro areas. As a Chicago native, I know that Minneapolis is no Chicago. But that shouldn't preclude the city from having some quality design. Also, I know it's not feasible to make every building architecturally iconic, but the current design as it stands barely meets satisfactory design standards IMO. I say this because I have seen some great design come from the Twin Cities and this rendering just doesn't cut it.

When will the Twin Cities get serious about increasing the design bar? Will this region settle for mediocrity for the sake of progress or will it challenge the current landscape and emerge as a region with civic pride in its development projects overall?
Nice post! Welcome to the minorities on this site! It's nice to see you posting, I look forward to reading your next postings.

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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby TWA » April 23rd, 2013, 1:15 pm

ord2msp wrote: When will the Twin Cities get serious about increasing the design bar? Will this region settle for mediocrity for the sake of progress or will it challenge the current landscape and emerge as a region with civic pride in its development projects overall?
I'm wondering what will help push the envelope on design? I think part of it is demand and competition. Being these are private developments- as long as there is little competition downtown- what incentive do these companies have in leaving the "safe, solid design that will sell" model they are currently using? I think that as more and more projects are done, the developers will have to add standout design to their buildings otherwise they will be lost in the shuffle. Right now these couple buildings already stand out because they are the only couple new ones.

I know that's a slightly pessimistic side to that, but it's one theory at least.

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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby John » April 23rd, 2013, 1:31 pm

4Marq is a pretty good start on creating more 30-45 story infill buildings on smaller sized parcels downtown. But I agree we can do better. The developers in this town have been playing it very safe and conservative in this latest development wave. What I can never figure out is why they want to look so much like everyone other project? Why not give your project some dramatic distinction as part of its selling point to appeal to renters? That seems to make good business sense. Anyways, my hope is we'll see more creativity in future projects.

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Re: 4Marq - (400 Marquette Avenue)

Postby mnmike » April 23rd, 2013, 1:33 pm

ord2msp wrote:When I mentioned the other metros in my previous post, it wasn't meant to compare skylines nor did it imply that those cities consistently incubate great design. The comparison was meant to invoke a sense that we could do better on the design front overall. We could use an appealing visual aesthetic as a lever to become more competitive with other metro areas. As a Chicago native, I know that Minneapolis is no Chicago. But that shouldn't preclude the city from having some quality design. Also, I know it's not feasible to make every building architecturally iconic, but the current design of this building as it stands barely meets satisfactory design standards IMO. I say this because I have seen some great design come from the Twin Cities and this rendering just doesn't cut it.

When will the Twin Cities get serious about increasing the design bar? Will this region settle for mediocrity for the sake of progress or will it challenge the current landscape and emerge as a region with civic pride in its development projects overall?
I really have to strongly disagree that we have settled for mediocrity in this city...look around. The Guthrie, Central Library, Walker, Weisman, MIA addition, Swedish Institute addition, and New Mc Phail building are all relatively recent examples off the top my head of buildings designed by very well known architects, some of them world famous. We have a history of demanding gret design and NOT settling...The 3 tallest buildings in town were designed by world famous firms and we have very few boring boxes that you see elsewhere. Many architecture nuts would kill to have the amount of wonderfully designed buildings we have...even Rapson's Riverside Plaza. Seriously, we have more than our fair share of architectural showpieces.

I don't think the designs of recent privately financed market rate apartments are a great way to judge the standard of architecure in a city, but that is just me. I mean, really...step back and look, list all the works by great and famous architects in this city. I don't see how anyone could say we have always "settled for mediocrity". I really don't think you will often find market rate privately financed multi-family housing that evokes a great deal of civic pride(there are, of course, exceptions)....those aren't the buildings that represent a city. I would have to say that Minneapolis takes more pride in the architecture of it's major buildings than most places do really.

All that aside...no, this one isn't my favorite. I do like it better than The Nic though. Neither of them makes me think the city is settling...have you heard the things the city demands of developers at some of the planning commission meetings? Sometimes it is like they try to redesign buildings themselves. They actually do a fairly good job of holding developers to what standards they can.
Last edited by mnmike on April 23rd, 2013, 1:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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