4Marq - 400 Marquette Ave (313' - 30 Stories)

[go4guy]

Here is my take. And this is just me. LPM is a great design. And it is more desirable for the builder to make it a great design becuase it will stick out and be very visible. Nic n 5th, and 4Marq will only really be visible from a few blocks away, and a view from the NE which will probably be blocked in a few years by a development on the vacant lot to the northeast. So what is the need to make it a great design. Why not just make it a functional design?

[ord2msp]

When I mentioned the other metros in my previous post, it wasn't meant to compare skylines nor did it imply that those cities consistently incubate great design. The comparison was meant to invoke a sense that we could do better on the design front overall. We could use an appealing visual aesthetic as a lever to become more competitive with other metro areas. As a Chicago native, I know that Minneapolis is no Chicago. But that shouldn't preclude the city from having some quality design. Also, I know it's not feasible to make every building architecturally iconic, but the current design of this building as it stands barely meets satisfactory design standards IMO. I say this because I have seen some great design come from the Twin Cities and this rendering just doesn't cut it.

When will the Twin Cities get serious about increasing the design bar? Will this region settle for mediocrity for the sake of progress or will it challenge the current landscape and emerge as a region with civic pride in its development projects overall?

I really have to strongly disagree that we have settled for mediocrity in this city...look around. The Guthrie, Central Library, Walker, Weisman, MIA addition, Swedish Institute addition, and New Mc Phail building are all relatively recent examples off the top my head of buildings designed by very well known architects, some of them world famous. We have a history of demanding gret design and NOT settling...The 3 tallest buildings in town were designed by world famous firms and we have very few boring boxes that you see elsewhere. Many architecture nuts would kill to have the amount of wonderfully designed buildings we have...even Rapson's Riverside Plaza. Seriously, we have more than our fair share of architectural showpieces.

I don't think the designs of recent privately financed market rate apartments are a great way to judge the standard of architecure in a city, but that is just me. I mean, really...step back and look, list all the works by great and famous architects in this city. I don't see how anyone could say we have always "settled for mediocrity". I really don't think you will often find market rate privately financed multi-family housing that evokes a great deal of civic pride....those aren't the buildings that represent a city. I would have to say that Minneapolis takes more pride in the architecture of it's major buildings than most places do really.

All that aside...no, this one isn't my favorite. I do like it better than The Nic though. Neither of them makes me think the city is settling...have you heard the things the city demands of developers at some of the planning commission meetings? Sometimes it is like they try to redesign buildings themselves. They actually do a fairly good job of holding developers to what standards they can.

I didn't mean to make it appear as if Minneapolis had "settled" or didn't contain groundbreaking design. My previous statements were representative of my frustration with some of the rather blase designs that have come forth recently. In all honesty, this project contains better design elements than a lot of other ones that have been proposed recently.

I personally believe that privately financed market rate construction can have a great impact on the perceived architectural quality of a city, particularly when viewing it from the pedestrian scale. I applaud developers for dealing with the city, as they can be quite demanding at times.

My apologies for veering off topic with my thoughts on design trajectory in this area. I think this project will be a marked improvement over what's currently there. It will be interesting to see how it all of that pre-cast concrete will look and age say 5-10 years from now.

[TWA]

I don't think your comment took the discussion off topic at all. Design is definitely a contentious point on this project. Although nothing like the neighboring Nic (thank god....)

[min-chi-cbus]

I thought there was a very good reason why developers were not going the extra mile (and dollar) to make new projects architectural masterpieces......banks wouldn't support such endeavors. Remember, we are still recovering from the 2nd worst economy in U.S. history, and banks are still very frivilous with funds.

[TroyGBiv]

Remember public funding brought us City Center and Block E...

[Unity77]

I hate to contribute to off-topic banter, but Denver's is by far the ugliest skyline of its size in America, if not the world. No one should look to Denver for inspiration in that department.

Really? Denver is over 600,000 and it's skyline kicks the hell out of cities of similar size - Columbus, Charlotte, Memphis, Baltimore, Nashville, etc...

The developments they have been building in Seattle the last few years are nothing to write home about, our infill is probably a bit better.

Have you been to Seattle lately?

but I guess it is in our nature to think that our stuff isn't good enough, the insecurity and negativity in this town drives me crazy sometimes.

It has nothing to do with being insecure. Minneapolis is one of those cities that experiences growth every now and then and during those periods it's crucial to implement smart growth along with solid architecture. A large percentage of the current developments are crap.

[Aville_37]

Even Chicago has its fair share of bland, uninspired architecture. Look at some of the highrise condos/apartments in River North and rows of suburban/fauk historic looking 3-flats in the northern neighborhoods - Lakeview, Lincoln Park, etc.

[nasa35]

I hate to contribute to off-topic banter, but Denver's is by far the ugliest skyline of its size in America, if not the world. No one should look to Denver for inspiration in that department.

Really? Denver is over 600,000 and it's skyline kicks the hell out of cities of similar size - Columbus, Charlotte, Memphis, Baltimore, Nashville, etc...

The developments they have been building in Seattle the last few years are nothing to write home about, our infill is probably a bit better.

Have you been to Seattle lately?

but I guess it is in our nature to think that our stuff isn't good enough, the insecurity and negativity in this town drives me crazy sometimes.

It has nothing to do with being insecure. Minneapolis is one of those cities that experiences growth every now and then and during those periods it's crucial to implement smart growth along with solid architecture. A large percentage of the current developments are crap.

absolutely love this post.

[nate]

I went to Seattle for the first time this January. They have terrific density and very active street life, but I don't think any given piece of architecture is noticeably better than what is being built here. I also think they way they relate to the Puget Sound shoreline is not nearly up to the level that Minneapolis relates to the Mississippi River.

Seattle beats Minneapolis in street life and overall density, it has a more intact historic core, and some really great urban squares/small parks. And a better Central Library - IMO. But Minneapolis still compares pretty well in many areas.

[min-chi-cbus]

but I guess it is in our nature to think that our stuff isn't good enough, the insecurity and negativity in this town drives me crazy sometimes.

It has nothing to do with being insecure. Minneapolis is one of those cities that experiences growth every now and then and during those periods it's crucial to implement smart growth along with solid architecture. A large percentage of the current developments are crap.

I had to correct you on this one.....Minneapolis has perhaps THE most sustained growth of all major metros in the United States, and is far different from the "roller-coaster" type growth that can occur in some coastal or sunbelt cities, like Denver or Seattle, chiefly. There are certainly economic booms and busts that can dictate development bursts but overall the growth rate of the population, economy, etc. has been relatively stable for many many decades now. It's almost linear!

[lordmoke]

Really? Denver is over 600,000 and it's skyline kicks the hell out of cities of similar size - Columbus, Charlotte, Memphis, Baltimore, Nashville, etc...

There are a number of reasons I don't like Denver- a large amount of their skyscrapers' surface are is comprised of matte stone, giving the skyline a 'flat' look. The have a problem with architectural homogeneity- that is, there is very little range in the architectural styles represented. And in terms of form, I'm not a fan of the way the buildings are spaced out, and in general they lack strong vertical lines (like we have in the IDS and Wells) and detailing of any kind. All my personal preference, and I'd love to debate the aesthetics of what makes a good skyline in another thread, which I will now start in Anything Goes.

[Tyler]

Have you been to Seattle lately?

Have you? I asked for an example as I'm in Seattle often. Where are these wonderful looking apartment towers?

[mattaudio]

Seattle seems to be focused on good urbanism rather than towers. At least the periphery neighborhoods I've walked around when I'm there.

[Tyler]

Seattle seems to be focused on good urbanism rather than towers. At least the periphery neighborhoods I've walked around when I'm there.

Sounds like settling for mediocrity to me!

[MNdible]

Seattle seems to be focused on good urbanism rather than towers. At least the periphery neighborhoods I've walked around when I'm there.

Sounds like settling for mediocrity to me!

See what he did there?

[MS3]

Seattle's skyline is beautiful. (So are their women) Denver's it just ok, and about the exact same size as ours, which ours, is simply awesome and will only get better. Charlotte's is the most underrated. The worse skyline in the US for its size (please don't argue this): El Paso Texas. (Population 665,000)

[MNdible]

Charlotte has some very nice buildings, but the composition of the whole looks awkward from just about every angle. Seattle benefits greatly from the surroundings. And Denver is a grade-A stinker.

[mnmike]

Really? Do we have to review city proper population versus square mileage? Yes, the metropolis of El Paso...with a city population of 665k in only 250 square miles! Sorry, that is off topic...but I am seeing the city proper population numbers start to fly with total disregard for their context.

[MS3]

??? What is your definition of "skyline" ???

[seanrichardryan]

Eh. Heh.

4 marq.