East End / Thresher Square / Trader Joes - 713 Washington Ave S

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
mnmike
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby mnmike » March 22nd, 2013, 11:35 am

I wouldn't expect more than 6 stories for this.

John
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby John » March 22nd, 2013, 12:17 pm

My biggest hope is they don't make the project look too antiseptic or generic. We are filling up all these vacant lots downtown very nicely (for the most part), but once in a while adding a few bolder looking buildings to the mix ( tall or short) would be great.

mpls_tc
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby mpls_tc » March 22nd, 2013, 3:15 pm

mnmike wrote:I wouldn't expect more than 6 stories for this.
50 units per floor?

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Nick
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby Nick » March 22nd, 2013, 3:21 pm

I'm intrigued about the hotel portion of this. Isn't the hotel market a bit overbuilt already?

John
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby John » March 22nd, 2013, 3:44 pm

When I visualize this area in ten years with a Viking's stadium, Wells Fargo corporate campus, LRT lines. etc, having a new hotel located within a few blocks of this sounds like a hotel developer's dream come true.

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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby Aville_37 » March 22nd, 2013, 3:51 pm

More reasons why it's so key to improve the streetscape along Washington Ave. and make it more pedestrian friendly. I can see Washington becoming more like Michigan Avenue in Chicago with more stores, etc. Nicollet is still great - but see it becoming more and more like State Street - catering more to locals/business people.

mnmike
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby mnmike » March 22nd, 2013, 3:59 pm

Nick wrote:I'm intrigued about the hotel portion of this. Isn't the hotel market a bit overbuilt already?

Most Hoteliers will probably tell you the market is "overbuilt" and that they don't want to see any more supply(they just don't want more competition and to have to adjust their numbers)...but it really isn't anymore. Hotels are getting back to pre-recession business levels/rates/occupancies. There was a glut for a while after the last round of hotels opened several years ago...but that has pretty well worked itself out. I would expect this to be a Hampton Inn or something similar. It is a bit odd that there isn't one in the market already.

On a side note...the Hyatt is converting the office space in its building to 100+ more hotel rooms.

MNdible
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby MNdible » March 22nd, 2013, 4:10 pm

Yeah, my sense is that there may still be a glut on the luxury end, but that there's probably still room for somebody on the lower end. This part of town could actually could be a great location for an Ace Hotel.

Wedgeguy
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby Wedgeguy » March 22nd, 2013, 8:26 pm

Did I see dumpsters and chute out the windows of the old Embassy Suites in the Center Village. IS someone renovating that property?

mnmike
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby mnmike » March 22nd, 2013, 10:35 pm

Yes, it will be a Hyatt Place

web

Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby web » March 23rd, 2013, 12:19 am

hyatt place is usually big buck

MplsTodd
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby MplsTodd » March 23rd, 2013, 8:43 am

John wrote:My biggest hope is they don't make the project look too antiseptic or generic. We are filling up all these vacant lots downtown very nicely (for the most part), but once in a while adding a few bolder looking buildings to the mix ( tall or short) would be great.
Sherman isn't afraid to be bold. I always liked his Zenith Condo project, whose dramatic red facade contrasted well with the Guthrie's IKEA blue.

I was also thinking that Dt Mpls needed a Hampton!

Hyatt Place is nice, but not big buck

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Avian
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby Avian » March 23rd, 2013, 1:08 pm

Zenith is a quarter block with 65 units and 9 stories. The Aloft next door is a half-block with 155 rooms. Granted the apartments in the new proposal likely won't be the size of Zenith's condos, but I'd expect a good-sized building for the area if they are using a half-block. Maybe in the 10-story range?

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”
― Plato

mnmike
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby mnmike » March 23rd, 2013, 5:14 pm

web wrote:hyatt place is usually big buck
Hyatt Place is Hyatt's cheap brand, actually. Kind of like a Hilton Garden inn, or a Courtyard by Marriott. Not sure what you guys mean by "big buck"...but Hampton Inn is a cheaper product than all of the ones that I mentioned. Don't get me wrong, they are nice...but they are Hilton's cheapest product.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 23rd, 2013, 6:39 pm

Avian wrote:Zenith is a quarter block with 65 units and 9 stories. The Aloft next door is a half-block with 155 rooms. Granted the apartments in the new proposal likely won't be the size of Zenith's condos, but I'd expect a good-sized building for the area if they are using a half-block. Maybe in the 10-story range?
How many units is the W hotel in Edina? 170? That building is 17 floors.

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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby dmdhashw » March 24th, 2013, 8:28 am

min-chi-cbus wrote:
Avian wrote:Zenith is a quarter block with 65 units and 9 stories. The Aloft next door is a half-block with 155 rooms. Granted the apartments in the new proposal likely won't be the size of Zenith's condos, but I'd expect a good-sized building for the area if they are using a half-block. Maybe in the 10-story range?
How many units is the W hotel in Edina? 170? That building is 17 floors.
225.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 24th, 2013, 10:02 am

Does that include the hotel units too?

If not, I still think the two structures are fairly similar in scope, and if anything, I think the site in Edina is more-than-likely larger than the plat downtown. I think 10-15 floors is certainly reasonable.

mnmike
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby mnmike » March 24th, 2013, 4:41 pm

Here I am being a negative Nancy again, but regular hotel rooms are pretty small, and we are talking about a half block here. I don't see why this would be more than the standard 6-8 story brick facade building...that is plenty of room for this amount of units. 110 hotel rooms(standard city room size is 250-300 square feet) could easily fit in the space that 50 or less apartments would take up. I am just happy to see a lot on the other side of Washington filled, and it would be great to see a mixed use like this. As for the height, I really don't care either way...I am just not sure why all the speculation that this will be bigger. Personally, I don't really think this is a lot that we need to go bigger than 6-8 floors on.

110 hotel rooms plus 150 units of apartments is not the same as a 260 unit apartment building. It is closer to the equivalent of a 200 or less unit building.

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Nathan
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby Nathan » March 24th, 2013, 5:49 pm

It's not truly a full half block. I don't know what form it will take, but it's going to be close to a lot of things, so it better look damn good!

min-chi-cbus
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Re: 700 Washington & Third Apartments/Hotel

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 24th, 2013, 6:06 pm

mnmike wrote:Here I am being a negative Nancy again, but regular hotel rooms are pretty small, and we are talking about a half block here. I don't see why this would be more than the standard 6-8 story brick facade building...that is plenty of room for this amount of units. 110 hotel rooms(standard city room size is 250-300 square feet) could easily fit in the space that 50 or less apartments would take up. I am just happy to see a lot on the other side of Washington filled, and it would be great to see a mixed use like this. As for the height, I really don't care either way...I am just not sure why all the speculation that this will be bigger. Personally, I don't really think this is a lot that we need to go bigger than 6-8 floors on.

110 hotel rooms plus 150 units of apartments is not the same as a 260 unit apartment building. It is closer to the equivalent of a 200 or less unit building.
Let's do some math:

300 SF per room, about 100 rooms is roughly 30,000 SF. 150 units at approx. 1,000 SF per unit is 150,000 SF, or 180,000 SF total, not including common areas, retail, or a lobby, which we'll add about 10% for, bringing the total to about 200,000 SF for just the building. This does NOT include parking, which I'll assume will be underground or at the very least above ground but not on a separate parcel (or a combo of both). With 110 rooms, I'd have to guess that they'd supply at least 75% of that number for hotel guests, so let's call it 80 spaces for hotel, and let's presume another 75% for the apartments, or about another 115 spaces, or roughly 200 spaces needed. I honestly have no idea how many parking spaces make up a half block, but I'll just guess that you'd be able to fit 60-75 spaces per floor, so at least 3 floors/levels would be needed for parking. We'll assume one of the three floors are underground, leaving 2 floors above ground.

With the lobby/retail/parking taking up at least the first 15-20 feet, that leaves the remainder to be built above ground. The Ameriprise tower built on 3rd Ave (I think) is a 500,000 SF tower (office) that rises 30 floors, and it takes up a half a city block. That's roughly 20,000 SF per floor for a half city block.

At 20,000 SF per floor needed, 200,000 SF would require 10 floors to fit all the space needs of the hotel and apts. Add that on top of the 20 feet already needed for the lobby/retail/parking (assumed from above), that brings the toal floor count to 11-12, or 120 feet (minimum).

So my guess tentatively is 12+ floors.


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