East End / Thresher Square / Trader Joes - 713 Washington Ave S

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
User avatar
Avian
Union Depot
Posts: 395
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 6:56 pm
Location: Minneapolis
Contact:

Re: Thresher Square

Postby Avian » June 19th, 2014, 10:53 pm

Well, since it was brought up, I agree that the design is pretty bad. Especially since this is in concert with the Thresher Square renovation into a hotel. There doesn't seem to be any relationship between the two. The stellar facade of Thresher Square makes the apartment building look like a Motel 6.

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”
― Plato

John
Capella Tower
Posts: 2249
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 2:06 pm

Re: Thresher Square

Postby John » June 20th, 2014, 4:13 am

Agree, the apartments look pretty boring, but at least they are using brick! I believe they will probably get some feedback from the neighborhood for some improvement to jazz it up. The 30,000 square feet of retail space sounds is large enough be a grocery store ( Trader Joe's ???). The Thresher building should turn out great.

go4guy
Foshay Tower
Posts: 899
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 8:54 am

Re: Thresher Square

Postby go4guy » June 20th, 2014, 6:20 am

How in the world will this cost over $100 million?

NE_love
City Center
Posts: 39
Joined: February 22nd, 2013, 12:48 pm

Re: Thresher Square

Postby NE_love » June 20th, 2014, 7:19 am

The apartments with 2 levels of parking would be about a third of that. When you add a skyway and rehab of a 7 story historic building, the number jumps up pretty quick. With the tax credits, developers tend to spend more to get a higher end product knowing they are paying a fraction.

go4guy
Foshay Tower
Posts: 899
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 8:54 am

Re: Thresher Square

Postby go4guy » June 20th, 2014, 7:23 am

NE_love wrote:The apartments with 2 levels of parking would be about a third of that. When you add a skyway and rehab of a 7 story historic building, the number jumps up pretty quick. With the tax credits, developers tend to spend more to get a higher end product knowing they are paying a fraction.
Thanks! I suppose they are not just renovating an old hotel, but renovating an old building into a completely new use as a hotel.

User avatar
Nathan
IDS Center
Posts: 4001
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 10:42 am

Re: Thresher Square

Postby Nathan » June 20th, 2014, 7:43 am

It's kind of sad that the thresher building and this project will face the back of the MNSFA parking garage... hopefully that looks at least a little nice. I think the rendering is pretty bad, if they spruce it up a bit to match some of the Mill District Buildings it could make a good bridge and gateway into DTE.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6203
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Thresher Square

Postby twincitizen » June 20th, 2014, 7:55 am

Avian wrote:Image
Here's a close approximation of the rendering's perspective in Google street view: http://goo.gl/maps/n7yxL

The skyway would connect to the MSFA parking ramp (and air rights development), which in turn connects to the Wells Fargo project and the rest of downtown.

I'm pretty excited by the idea of Chicago Avenue becoming a commercial corridor through here, even if just for a block or two. I'm not so hopeful about the dead area from the new stadium through several blocks of HCMC and multiple four-lane one-way cross streets (6th, 7th, 8th, etc.) I have no idea how to meaningfully connect this area to Elliot Park, but Chicago Avenue should be that connection and commercial corridor. That would require heavy participation and investment by HCMC.

stockman
Block E
Posts: 13
Joined: July 19th, 2013, 7:35 pm

Re: Thresher Square

Postby stockman » June 20th, 2014, 8:04 am

So sad to see developers in minneapolis wasting money on a skyway. So much for the idea that the downtown doesn't need anymore skyways. More skyways connecting to more parking garages and no mention of what will be done to improve the streetscape, which is god awful in downtown and needs more investment.

User avatar
Anondson
IDS Center
Posts: 4045
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: Thresher Square

Postby Anondson » June 20th, 2014, 8:06 am

It's appealing that the skyway brings people to a clear, obvious entrance at Washington. With the new reconstruction coming to Washington, hopefully there never is a skyway crossing over Washington in the Mill District. But a skyway street entrance at Washington brings the skyway within a single block of the Gutherie ... In the way that freeway entrances attract development, this skyway entrance a block from the Gutherie could bring a retail boost to the Washington portion of the Mill District. Could.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7936
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Thresher Square

Postby mattaudio » June 20th, 2014, 8:16 am

I'm torn on the skyway thing, even though I dislike them in general.
It would be interesting to compare the rents here to similar rents in the Mill District, or the hotel to the Aloft which lacks skyway connectivity. Yet Marq2 won't have a skyway connection apparently, so maybe that will be the tipping point to change things.

IllogicalJake
Target Field
Posts: 529
Joined: January 30th, 2014, 9:03 am

Re: Thresher Square

Postby IllogicalJake » June 20th, 2014, 8:18 am

stockman wrote:So sad to see developers in minneapolis wasting money on a skyway. So much for the idea that the downtown doesn't need anymore skyways. More skyways connecting to more parking garages and no mention of what will be done to improve the streetscape, which is god awful in downtown and needs more investment.
All of that first-floor retail space and glass entrances at the street level are nothing? Seems like a huge improvement to the streetscape to me... and I walk by this block daily.

I also use the skyway often, and I'm excited to see this come so much further east. It'll be great to get those downtown office lunchers to spread out a little bit. With the thousands of workers in the Wells Fargo building to take advantage of, seems like a pretty good step. I'd imagine the retail on the skyway level will fill up with food options or other shops pretty quickly and be utilized often. But with apartments and a hotel included in this project, here's hoping they're open past 5pm.
i talk too much. web dev, downtown. admin @ tower.ly

stockman
Block E
Posts: 13
Joined: July 19th, 2013, 7:35 pm

Re: Thresher Square

Postby stockman » June 20th, 2014, 8:33 am

hopefully that would be the tipping point at 4Marq. But people seem to focus their attention on skyways way too much when regardless of whether you are building a skyway, the street is totally neglected.

Yes, there looks to be some basic improvement with street trees on Chicago. But the 3rd street side of this development is really in horrible shape and the drawing shows very little attention to it other than providing a skyway to block sun and hinder an opportunity for nice street elements that could complement the entrance to the hotel.

Personally and though anecdotal, I think the viability of places like Uptown, Dinkytown, the East Bank U of M campus show that skyways are not necessary and in their absence there is better street life. And the post above just shows why the skyway will be bad when you say "the retail on the skyway level will fill up with food options or other shops pretty quickly and be utilized often..." Not sure if you are talking about the WF building or not but regardless it just shows the point that this is retail that would otherwise be on the street level. So the street again is going to be dead.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6203
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Thresher Square

Postby twincitizen » June 20th, 2014, 8:50 am

I'm not anti-skyway, but I am anti-skyway level retail. Skyways as pure transportation are an adaptation to our harsh climate. The dead streetscapes that result from the retail following the people up to the 2nd level are a disaster. But it doesn't have to be that way. I'd actually like to see the city study prohibiting future development of skyway level commercial space. I don't know how else we are going to strengthen our streetscapes and have retail establishments that stay open after business hours. This new apartment should not have retail space on the 2nd level, nor should the Wells Fargo development.

IllogicalJake
Target Field
Posts: 529
Joined: January 30th, 2014, 9:03 am

Re: Thresher Square

Postby IllogicalJake » June 20th, 2014, 8:59 am

stockman wrote:And the post above just shows why the skyway will be bad when you say "the retail on the skyway level will fill up with food options or other shops pretty quickly and be utilized often..." Not sure if you are talking about the WF building or not but regardless it just shows the point that this is retail that would otherwise be on the street level. So the street again is going to be dead.
I know, I know, my opinion is bad and I should feel bad. :)

I utilize the skyway daily, including retail. You raise a good point about Uptown, U of M, etc... but the skyway and its retail are already here, and I've accepted that. I honestly don't want it to die off and become a baron, abandoned walkway among buildings and I'm not convinced that doing so would enhance our streets.

I know I'm the odd-one-out with my feelings on it and I'm okay with that. :D
Last edited by IllogicalJake on June 20th, 2014, 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
i talk too much. web dev, downtown. admin @ tower.ly

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1121
Joined: June 2nd, 2012, 11:01 am

Re: Thresher Square

Postby mnmike » June 20th, 2014, 8:59 am

I feel like they may have Trader Joes in mind for this one...30k sq feet of retail and underground parking.

sanguinic
Metrodome
Posts: 66
Joined: February 26th, 2014, 5:50 pm

Re: Thresher Square

Postby sanguinic » June 20th, 2014, 9:05 am

I'm with Anondson. The clear street/skyway connection in this building is a plus. And here's hoping this is a very preliminary sketch, because it's not exactly an aesthetic equal to the beautiful and beautifully detailed Thresher Square (I imagine it's the height it is because it's going to be yet another low-level stick-construction building on a two-story concrete pad). And yes, let's not see the skyways creep across Washington (one of the city's worst, that mirrored thing at 100 Washington Square, is an urban nightmare). From what I understand of the Downtown East/Wells Fargo projects, the skyway connection from them into downtown isn't exactly direct. The only path I can see them taking is across 4th Avenue through the Haaf Ramp, which connects across 4th Street into the Hennepin County Detention Center, which connects across 5th Street into the Hennepin County Government Center parking ramp. That last connection is currently a nearly block-long open-air walkway, hardly shirtsleeves conditions when it's 10-below zero.

John
Capella Tower
Posts: 2249
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 2:06 pm

Re: Thresher Square

Postby John » June 20th, 2014, 9:08 am

mnmike wrote:I feel like they may have Trader Joes in mind for this one...30k sq feet of retail and underground parking.
Yes. According to Wikipedia, the average Trader Joes is between 8000-12000 square feet. They could have a Trader Joe's with lots of room to spare for other retail.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7936
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Thresher Square

Postby mattaudio » June 20th, 2014, 9:09 am

I've always wondered how that qualifies as a connection in the skyway system, being open air, inside a noisy parking ramp, and only bollards between walking and a sea of parked cars.

Southside
Metrodome
Posts: 50
Joined: September 19th, 2013, 12:06 pm

Re: Thresher Square

Postby Southside » June 20th, 2014, 9:16 am

Thresher Square might be the greatest building in either city because it is magical. The westside has 5 stories and the eastside has 6 and it's almost impossible to notice unless it's pointed out. Magic! The renovation of the neighboring building should create a 7 story building that continues the effect.

MplsSteve
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 147
Joined: May 2nd, 2013, 9:11 am

Re: Thresher Square

Postby MplsSteve » June 20th, 2014, 9:17 am

twincitizen wrote: I'd actually like to see the city study prohibiting future development of skyway level commercial space.
I think this would be a great compromise. A lot of people love skyways, and just to be completely anti-skyway just closes down the dialog and doesn't solve anything. In addition to no new skyway retail we need much better connections between the skyway level and ground floor (like the Crystal Court). This would get people down to the street level retail. Another problem is retail that's not accessible from both inside and the sidewalk. So often we see stores with direct street access that is permantly closed off, like Office Depot or many of the shops that once existed in Gaviidae.


Return to “Minneapolis - Downtown”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests