800 Washington Ave S (Guthrie Ramp liner parcel)

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
twincitizen
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800 Washington Ave S (Guthrie Ramp liner parcel)

Postby twincitizen » March 21st, 2013, 3:11 pm

Mod note: Mortenson cancelled their plans for a Hyatt Centric here. The City issued a new RFP in summer 2018.

Buried in the story about Sherman's latest DTE apartment/hotel project was a mention of the City-owned land at 800 Washington Ave S. This is the side of the Guthrie Ramp that faces Washington and has been the subject of many development proposals, yet it languishes on.

They have no plans to issue a RFP (request for proposals) in the immediate future and are "waiting to learn more about how stadium-related development will affect the area before moving ahead with this parcel," according to city spokesman Matt Laible.

MotorCity2TwinCities
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Re: 800 Washington Ave S - Vacant Site attached to Guthrie R

Postby MotorCity2TwinCities » March 21st, 2013, 8:22 pm

Lame. Sounds like the city is acting like any other parking lot owner in DTE and is just waiting to cash in on the supposed stadium development explosion that may or may not ever happen.

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Re: 800 Washington Ave S - Vacant Site attached to Guthrie R

Postby MNdible » March 21st, 2013, 9:47 pm

Chill, folks. If this were the last parking lot in the area, and the city were sitting on it for no good reason, then I'd see an issue. As it is, there's a lot of recent activity, but certainly no lack of available locations left to develop for an interested developer.

Everything's a f'n travesty with this board, man!

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Nick
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Re: 800 Washington Ave S - Vacant Site attached to Guthrie R

Postby Nick » March 21st, 2013, 9:56 pm

Isn't it just a vacant lot? No parking?

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Re: 800 Washington Ave S - Vacant Site attached to Guthrie R

Postby PhilmerPhil » March 21st, 2013, 10:34 pm

MNdible wrote:Everything's a f'n travesty with this board, man!
:lol:

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Re: 800 Washington Ave S - Vacant Site attached to Guthrie R

Postby SixOneTwo » March 21st, 2013, 10:43 pm

Nick wrote:Isn't it just a vacant lot? No parking?
Yep - it's just a vacant dirt / grass lot. But the City also owns a parking lot one block away on Park & 2nd St. and has no plans the develop it in the near future.

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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby twincitizen » March 16th, 2015, 8:30 pm

RFP to be issued soon for this site: https://twitter.com/ericthebest/status/ ... 4073354240

RFP to follow for nearby 205 Park site, though it could be used for construction staging of Mill City Quarter project: https://twitter.com/ericthebest/status/ ... 1969193986

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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby Silophant » March 16th, 2015, 9:34 pm

Freaking finally.

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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby acs » March 16th, 2015, 10:06 pm

This will be a good test to see just how little parking developers are willing to build for a (assumingly) high-end development. I'm personally hoping for condos or maybe startup offices.

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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby mattaudio » March 17th, 2015, 8:29 am

OMG finally. That concrete wall + fence along Washington was atrocious. It's a shame they couldn't have done some temporary activation for the past few years, but at least we should be seeing something get going in a year or two.

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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby grant1simons2 » March 18th, 2015, 8:52 am


mattaudio
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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby mattaudio » March 18th, 2015, 8:58 am

RFP respondents: Please include in your proposal to fund a re-purposing of the Washington Ave blockface to include two narrowed traffic lanes for westbound Washington Ave, a planted median, then on-street parking served by a westbound slip lane. Bonus points if the slip lane to sidewalk transition is curbless with bollards or something similar (collect stormwater on the median between slip/parking and traffic lanes, not at outside curb). This would make your new project uniquely urban and more valuable than competing blockfaces. I'm available for consultation. #multiwayboulevard

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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby twincitizen » March 18th, 2015, 9:46 am

Here's what I was looking for regarding using the existing ramp:
The ramp has sufficient capacity to support new development on the parcel
(currently 400+ spaces are not committed under existing agreements). Proposers
are encouraged to utilize this capacity.
A below-grade connection to the ramp’s
Ninth Avenue elevator tower could be considered. In addition, it may be possible to
add a short skyway to connect an upper floor of the 800 South Washington
development to the Ninth Avenue elevator tower in the ramp. Since the City financed
the ramp with tax-exempt bonds, various federal restrictions apply to its operation. It
should be assumed that if development on the parcel requires parking in the ramp,
then these stalls would be provided at the same rates available to the general public.

Minneapolis Public Works will work with the selected developer to explore how to
meet the parking needs of the 800 South Washington development via their various
parking programming options and within the limitations of the bond financing.
Proposers are strongly encouraged to identify their parking needs in their proposal.
If parking underneath the new development is necessary, Public Works is open to
exploring whether it would be possible to create a connection between one of the
below-grade levels in the parking facility and parking that would be constructed
under the 800 South Washington parcel. However, it should be noted that this may
be challenging from an engineering point of view due to the sloping parking floor. In
addition to the costs of retrofitting the parking facility, there also may be costs related
to changes in the ramp’s access equipment to accommodate access to parking
under the development parcel. Necessary easements and operating agreements
would be negotiated with the selected developer as part of the overall development
package.
Thoughts regarding whether it'll be residential, office, or hotel:

It seems the parcel is a bit deep for a single-loaded corridor apartment or hotel, but the presence of the ramp makes a double-loaded corridor impossible (at least on the lower 5 floors, there would be no windows on the ramp side). Doesn't that dimensional limitation dictate that it will either be offices or really large/long residential units? Given retail/lobby on the first floor, levels 2+ have 76 feet of depth to work with. Leaving room for a generous corridor, building shell, etc. and say a 5 foot setback from the property line on Washington - you still have units that are like 60 feet deep. That's kinda huge, no? I guess that could work for big, loft-style condo units that are long and skinny.

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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby acs » March 18th, 2015, 10:16 am

On top of that throw in the challenge of making 20% of the units affordable, without any city assistance, if they do go housing. You could put those units on the lower floors facing the ramp to make the other units facing Washington a bit more reasonably sized, but to me that smacks of inequality and I doubt the city would let it fly. The other option would be to keep it single loaded on floors 2-5 as described but put the smaller units and affordable units above. Problem there is that they would take up space that would otherwise command the highest rents. In short it may just be easier to ignore the city's suggestion or go with something other than housing.

twincitizen
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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby twincitizen » March 18th, 2015, 10:24 am

Read more:
However, the City is open, subject to City Council approval, to supporting and
assisting the selected developer with any application for federal, state, county
and regional funding for which the proposed development might qualify, subject
to specific program guidelines.
No developer builds affordable housing without subsidy. Unless you're talking about older existing housing that is "market-rate affordable", affordable=subsidized.

If a developer sought to comply with the city's wish for 20% affordable units, they would absolutely pursue grants from the County/Met Council and/or federal tax credits.

I think you're right though, it might simply be easier for the developer to blow off that suggestion from the city, if I'm right about the building dimensions creating necessarily large units.

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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby Tyler » March 18th, 2015, 10:44 am

twincitizen wrote: It seems the parcel is a bit deep for a single-loaded corridor apartment or hotel, but the presence of the ramp makes a double-loaded corridor impossible (at least on the lower 5 floors, there would be no windows on the ramp side). Doesn't that dimensional limitation dictate that it will either be offices or really large/long residential units? Given retail/lobby on the first floor, levels 2+ have 76 feet of depth to work with. Leaving room for a generous corridor, building shell, etc. and say a 5 foot setback from the property line on Washington - you still have units that are like 60 feet deep. That's kinda huge, no? I guess that could work for big, loft-style condo units that are long and skinny.
Both previously approved projects were residential. The Revue had long, skinny shotgun style units. The Artspace proposal had larger work/live spaces. So not an insurmountable design consideration.
Towns!

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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby xandrex » March 18th, 2015, 10:51 am

Seems like retail and lobby on the first floor, plus office for the stories that would run into issues with the ramp would be appropriate. Then put residential on top of that where you could have apartments on both sides.

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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby Munch'n » March 18th, 2015, 9:16 pm

Not really a surprise but Sherman will respond to RFP

https://twitter.com/vogemn
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acs
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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby acs » March 20th, 2015, 3:08 pm

Nice article in MinnPost about Downtown East, featuring an interview with Tony Kuechle, SVP of Sherman Associates. He pretty much gives away what their proposal for this site will be:
As Downtown East’s office-space portfolio grows and big-ticket stadium events like the 2018 Super Bowl and 2019 NCAA Final Four tournament approach, more hotel announcements are likely: According to Kuechle, the long-vacant “E Liner” parcel at 800 Washington Avenue is a prime candidate for a four- or five-story boutique hotel; a handful of vacant or disused sites near the stadium hold longer-term promise.
http://www.minnpost.com/line/2015/03/lo ... sformation

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Re: Guthrie Ramp Block Vacant Site - (800 Washington Avenue)

Postby HiawathaGuy » March 20th, 2015, 3:21 pm

acs wrote:Nice article in MinnPost about Downtown East, featuring an interview with Tony Kuechle, SVP of Sherman Associates.
Awesome article!


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