222 & Whole Foods - (222 Hennepin Avenue)

[seanrichardryan]

If you build towers for the sake of towers, you get Atlanta. No thanks.

[nasa35]

It's the next step to take in the transformation of our downtown to a mature urban core.

That last sentence there is key. It will happen eventually. As surface lots go away it will only make sense for developers to build up. I understand the frustration people are feeling but we need to remember, we are not San Francisco or Seattle. We have a ways to go before we get there. These 6-10 story buildings will offer good support for when the next wave comes in with (hopefully) taller buildings. Instead of a 30 story building sitting in the middle of blocks and blocks of surface parking at least there will be some infill development around. What gets tiring is the fact that many of the topics on the forum now are just people bickering about how nothing is good enough or right and how everything should fall in line with their fantasy. There's very little talk of the actual real life construction. If you honestly think you know the best way to do these things then by all means, become a developer and go get financing for that 250 unit apartment building with 300 hotel rooms and 10 floors of office. Bonus points if you can turn a profit.

People are not bickering or bitching because that's what we do...some of us are honestly horrified by some of the projects. Once we lose the space to build....people will be bemoaning the crap of the early 2000's development, apartment boom.

[mnmike]

It will be soooooo long before we run out of space to build...and at that point, some of the "early 2000's crap" can be replaced. There is still so much open land downtown, not to mention redevelopable land.

[mattaudio]

It will be soooooo long before we run out of space to build...and at that point, some of the "early 2000's crap" can be replaced. There is still so much open land downtown, not to mention redevelopable land.

Ding ding ding, you are correct.

[John]

If you build towers for the sake of towers, you get Atlanta. No thanks.

Yes, I agree with you. I've been there and the towers feel willy nilly. But we have a much more compact and well planned downtown than Atlanta. Our zoning laws are stricter. The personality of our city is more orderly. I doubt we will ever turn into that town.

[nasa35]

If you build towers for the sake of towers, you get Atlanta. No thanks.

Yes, I agree with you. I've been there and the towers feel willy nilly. But we have a much more compact and well planned downtown than Atlanta. Our zoning laws are stricter. The personality of our city is more orderly. I doubt we will ever turn into that town.

That's why it is never called a great skyline!

[mnmike]

Wait, Atlanta is never called a great skyline? I think it is alright, but it is certainly linear and not that dense. They do build tall buildings all over the place, I thought you liked that? Aren't you agreeing with the arguments against you now? I am confused. Atlanta was brought up as an example of why we don't need tall buildings on lots like this.

[nasa35]

Wait, Atlanta is never called a great skyline? I think it is alright, but it is certainly linear and not that dense. They do build tall buildings all over the place, I thought you liked that? Aren't you agreeing with the arguments against you now? I am confused. Atlanta was brought up as an example of why we don't need tall buildings on lots like this.

I've never liked Atlanta's skyline. It's not dense and is spread out WAY TOO much. I'm saying I HATE 222!

[mnmike]

I think we got that part!:) ha

[Nick]

Looks like they might start putting up the facade on the 1st Avenue side. I'm surprised how little the water main break seems to have impacted this. Did anyone ever hear about damage? The underground ramp had to have flooded to some extent, but it never seemed like they were pumping water out of the base or anything.

[lorwest]

Status today:

222Hennepin.jpg

[Avian]

If you build towers for the sake of towers, you get Atlanta. No thanks.

I've spent a fair amount of time in downtown Atlanta.

Bottom line: You need a car.

[mullen]

so just like the "twin" cities then....

i like atlanta..but again its a much larger metro than here. their skyline should be larger.

the closer this whole foods/apartment project gets to completion the less i like it. maybe it will be look better if anything ever happens on the barren wasteland that are the blocks surrouding the library.

[John]

the closer this whole foods/apartment project gets to completion the less i like it. maybe it will be look better if anything ever happens on the barren wasteland that are the blocks surrouding the library.

I doubt this area is going to remain a barren wasteland for long. And guess what? I think its safe to predict that the 222 project (that you dislike) is actually going to be the catalyst that transforms this area into a really desirable and active part of downtown.

[Tcmetro]

Atlanta is similar to Houston and Los Angeles in the fact that there are towers dotted all over the suburbs. They have a subway system, which serves Downtown, the Airport, and Buckhead, but I guess their East-West line is underused, and I don't believe it has attracted any significant development.

[John]

I've spent a fair amount of time in downtown Atlanta.

Bottom line: You need a car.

Yes, I remember driving in Atlanta and being struck by how confusing and convoluted the street pattern is. It felt more sprawling than Minneapolis. Not pedestrian friendly at all. The roads are twisty and winding even in the urban core. Minneapolis/St Paul has a much more a rectangular grid street pattern, which I think is an advantage for us in the development of our LRT system and our ability to become more dense and urbanized. We also have a history of a well developed street car system back in the early 20th century , so we can improve upon the already existing built environment that was created by that.

[Nick]

I've spent a fair amount of time in downtown Atlanta.

Bottom line: You need a car.

Yes, I remember driving in Atlanta and being struck by how confusing and convoluted the street pattern is. It felt more sprawling than Minneapolis. Not pedestrian friendly at all. The roads are twisty and winding even in the urban core. Minneapolis/St Paul has a much more a rectangular grid street pattern, which I think is an advantage for us in the development of our LRT system and our ability to become more dense and urbanized. We also have a history of a well developed street car system back in the early 20th century , so we can improve upon the already existing built environment that was created by that.

Our bad:



Now let this tangent rest in peace.

[bapster2006]

Ouch

[MNdible]

I'm going to say it's a stretch to blame the Minnesota Second Regiment for the state of Atlanta urbanism.

[Unity77]

the closer this whole foods/apartment project gets to completion the less i like it. maybe it will be look better if anything ever happens on the barren wasteland that are the blocks surrouding the library.

What? What's not to like? The project has a great design, a grocery store, and it's infill.

Don't count on it being surrounded by something better.