National Marrow Donor Program HQ - 524 5th Street North

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
min-chi-cbus
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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby min-chi-cbus » April 16th, 2013, 5:44 pm

So let me get this straight.....Hines has some land near this location and was pitching a 24 story office HQ for the National Bone Marrow Donor Program, but they instead chose this United Properties location, where they will instead (likely) build an 8 story office HQ? Why should I not be a bit disappointed? We essentially lost the opportunity for a classic 24 story office tower near Target Field, that everyone on this forum seemed to be excited about. Since when did everybody become so complacent?

I'm probably still not getting it right.... :oops:

MS3

Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby MS3 » April 16th, 2013, 6:26 pm

I have an idea- nothing can be proposed for new construction in the downtown Minneapolis area unless its at least 25 stories and/or 100 meters.

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby MNdible » April 16th, 2013, 10:41 pm

min-chi-cbus wrote:Why should I not be a bit disappointed?
Well, for starters, because they're building the offices for their own needs, not to make you happy. This location, and this structure, presumably offered them better price points, which is important for a non-profit, but still had most of the benefits, in terms of proximity to the Interchange.

National Bone Marrow would only have taken a portion of the square footage in the Hines building, and they would have needed to build the rest of it on spec. The market may be ready for a spec office building, but probably in the core of downtown and not here.

And in any case, the construction on the far side of the Interchange is just making the Hines site (which due to its location above the rail trench and adjacent to the 5th Street bridge is a tricky and expensive site) more attractive to future development.

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby John » April 16th, 2013, 11:00 pm

MNdible wrote:And in any case, the construction on the far side of the Interchange is just making the Hines site (which due to its location above the rail trench and adjacent to the 5th Street bridge is a tricky and expensive site) more attractive to future development.
Yes, exactly. With all the development leapfrogging westward of the Hines site, it's destined to be a more attractive site for development . The result could easily be they will create the signature project for the booming North Loop. Hines is a huge powerhouse developer and not afraid to do something "big time" if the opportunity arises.

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby min-chi-cbus » April 17th, 2013, 8:09 am

MNdible wrote:
min-chi-cbus wrote:Why should I not be a bit disappointed?
Well, for starters, because they're building the offices for their own needs, not to make you happy. This location, and this structure, presumably offered them better price points, which is important for a non-profit, but still had most of the benefits, in terms of proximity to the Interchange.

National Bone Marrow would only have taken a portion of the square footage in the Hines building, and they would have needed to build the rest of it on spec. The market may be ready for a spec office building, but probably in the core of downtown and not here.

And in any case, the construction on the far side of the Interchange is just making the Hines site (which due to its location above the rail trench and adjacent to the 5th Street bridge is a tricky and expensive site) more attractive to future development.
Do you EVER have anything positive to say or add?

I guess I'm just surprised that when other sites (like "The Nic") shave off a few floors or change the coloring, many people lose their marbles and spew their distaste all over the thread, yet when a national HQ building gets trimmed down to 1/3 its proposed height, everybody is lah-ti-dah. I'm a bit surprised, I guess (and yes, I'm also disappointed, but no, I do not think the company cares or should care about my input for their HQ).

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby twincitizen » April 17th, 2013, 8:23 am

Seeking $4MM in public subsidies: Public funds sought for the Shapco project include nearly $2.94 million in environmental cleanup grants, with $487,460 from the state, $350,000 from the Metropolitan Council and $2.1 million from Hennepin County. The city also plans to apply for $1,037,460 from the Metropolitan Council’s Transit Oriented Development Grant Program. (courtesy of the F&C article)

This thing better be beautiful and truly activate the street with attractive frontages. I already said it once, but I hope the neighborhood and City staff really make sure the developer gets it right. This building is going to be at the nexus of pedestrian and transit activity in the neighborhood for decades to come. I really hope they reconsider retail space.
Last edited by twincitizen on April 17th, 2013, 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby mullen » April 17th, 2013, 8:25 am

there are multiple big users shopping for space. dt mpls has many mid and larger size companies across various business/service sectors looking at their future needs. ad firms, PR firms, law firms, finance....the list goes one. the hines tower is still in play. i wouldn't be discouraged. it's a great thing our downtown is diverse and not tied to one sector, such as government.

i welcome this new office to the north loop. this is hundreds of workers moving from offices outside of downtown. the only thing that would make it better is if this was a move from suburb to city.

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby John » April 17th, 2013, 8:45 am

twincitizen wrote:This thing better be beautiful and truly activate the street with attractive frontages. I already said it once, but I hope the neighborhood and City staff really make sure the developer gets it right. This building is going to be at the nexus of pedestrian and transit activity in the neighborhood for decades to come. I really hope they reconsider retail space.
I agree the aesthetics of this proposal are very important. It needs to be more than just a suburban office park building.

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby mnmike » April 17th, 2013, 8:53 am

min-chi-cbus wrote:
I guess I'm just surprised that when other sites (like "The Nic") shave off a few floors or change the coloring, many people lose their marbles and spew their distaste all over the thread, yet when a national HQ building gets trimmed down to 1/3 its proposed height, everybody is lah-ti-dah. I'm a bit surprised, I guess (and yes, I'm also disappointed, but no, I do not think the company cares or should care about my input for their HQ).
Here's the thing...the Hines project was never proposed as the HQ for National Marrow. Sure it was rumored that they may be a possible major tenant(I don't think that was ever even in print...pretty sure those rumors were just on this board?), but to say that a new HQ building is getting trimmed down to 1/3 it's size is incorrect. Two entirely different projects, which I think is what a lot of people are trying to make clear, as there was some confusion among some. Sure, this would take that possible tenant off the table for other projects...but not necessarily kill them.

It would be good to have some more daytime foot traffic from offices in this area...I do hope they will have at least a little first floor retail.

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby MNdible » April 17th, 2013, 1:42 pm

While their current site is technically in Minneapolis, it is in every meaningful way just as suburban as if it were in Bloomington. This project is a major win for the city, because their move downtown is not driven by needed adjacencies, like a law office or accountants or Target vendors. It is driven by a belief that this more expensive downtown location is a real benefit for their employees.

We should be celebrating this for what it represents, not berating it because it's only 8 stories tall.

MS3

Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby MS3 » April 17th, 2013, 4:50 pm

Yes let's celebrate- I'm ok with that, but can we please not call this a tower.

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby twincitizen » April 26th, 2013, 1:08 pm

Quote in the MSP Biz Journal today:

"[The site] has a dynamic position as we enter downtown off Hwy 55 to the west. It announces your arrival downtown. Whatever we do with architecture, it's going to be important to signify that your (sic) entering the urban area. We want it to be a gateway type of image for downtown Minneapolis." -- Bill Katter, executive VP of United Properties.

I can't stress this enough: the ground floor use/activity/architecture matters so much more than what this thing looks like as you're driving on 55

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby nordeast homer » April 26th, 2013, 1:17 pm

I think that will depend a little on the tennant and what they are looking for don't you think? If they want a secure area, good luck with public access or tons of activity. Sorry to say, but they could probably not care less about street level activity if that doesn't fit their need. Contrary to that; if they are trying to draw people you could probably look for some sort of plaza, we'll see. I wouldn't plan on any retail.

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby John » April 26th, 2013, 1:37 pm

twincitizen wrote:Quote in the MSP Biz Journal today:

"[The site] has a dynamic position as we enter downtown off Hwy 55 to the west. It announces your arrival downtown. Whatever we do with architecture, it's going to be important to signify that your (sic) entering the urban area. We want it to be a gateway type of image for downtown Minneapolis." -- Bill Katter, executive VP of United Properties.

I can't stress this enough: the ground floor use/activity/architecture matters so much more than what this thing looks like as you're driving on 55
They are BOTH important! I think his comments are at least in the right direction as far as how it looks. Saying "We want it to be a gateway type of image for downtown Minneapolis" is room for optimism. That said, I agree having a strong street level design oriented to the pedestrian is critical. TwinCitizen: email him your thoughts and feedback. You might be surprised at his receptiveness. :)
Last edited by John on April 26th, 2013, 1:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby FISHMANPET » April 26th, 2013, 1:39 pm

The look as you drive in matters for outsiders. It gives a view of the city as something to visit, but not a place to stay. You drive you, you're impressed, you do your thing, then you leave. The people that stay care about ground floor use.

So who is this building going to be built for?

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby mullen » April 26th, 2013, 1:57 pm

a "gateway" building of 7 floors? umm ok then. target field will just overpower this.

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby MNdible » April 26th, 2013, 2:19 pm

Because of the shift in the city grid, this building will terminate the long view down Olson Memorial. Even at just 7 stories, it will be unusually prominent. And remember it's 7 commercial stories, which will make it quite a bit taller than the stick built residential.

MS3

Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby MS3 » April 26th, 2013, 6:05 pm

I don't see how a 7 story building can make a red carpet entrance to our city in this spot or any other spot. Unless maybe they are 50' tall floors?

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Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby MNdible » April 26th, 2013, 6:10 pm

Ohferchrissakes.

There are lots of amazing buildings that are only three stories tall. You people and your obsession with height!

MS3

Re: Shapco Printing Site - (524 Fifth Street North)

Postby MS3 » April 26th, 2013, 7:15 pm

Your 100% right and I agree with you about 3story buildings looking amazing. We need a mix of everything and have that . But to label something that way for downtown, I'd prefer height, architectural uniqueness, and skyline impact. By that's just my opinion and preference too. And if I had my way with it, we would have a 1000-1100 foot sleek office tower in the heart of the core, a 900 ft target tower at their location, 3-4 400-500ft towers at downtown east by the stadium, 1- 650 ft convention center hotel, and another residential 350 footer on that lot by nic and 5th. And of course this 7 story gem also


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