Downtown Parking Facilities

[amiller92]

The new ramp by the Vikings stadium is $7 for the day if you're in before 9am (up from $5 before the Wells Fargo buildings opened). It's a few blocks from the office, but where I park on the relatively few days I drive.

[mattaudio]

Looking at that recent diagram of DTE parking facilities:
- Gateway Ramp (1 square block) has 1397 stalls
- Gov Center ramp (2/5 block) has 1303 stalls
- 4th Ave city ramp (3/5 block) has 750 stalls, and has a city office replacement proposal under consideration.

At what point does the Gateway Ramp become a redevelopment site? It seems like a huge land use for not that much parking. https://goo.gl/maps/GcrbiX3aP7R2

[MNdible]

Gateway Ramp is also a major bus layover station, right?

[intercomnut]

Gateway Ramp is also a major bus layover station, right?

Yes. From what I can tell, pretty much all of Metro Transit and MVTA's express buses that go to the south layover or at least start their trips there.

[mattaudio]

Based on the charts I've seen, layover demand really only peaks in the PM rush, since that's how buses stage to start their route at particular times. It seems like an awfully inefficient land use for just a couple hours of demand each day. If we had suitable bus lanes to keep buses on track, you think we could have some sort of staging/layover facility on the fringe of the core, but with a reliable straight shot into the core. Or, you think there could be an underground layover facility built as part of one of these major full-block projects such as the Ritz Block.

[MNdible]

The complications involved in including bus layover in the Nicollet Hotel block were one of the major reasons that site sat undeveloped for so long.

[mattaudio]

True but that was a different complication. The complication there was, "We bought this with Federal money that now obligates us to figure out a transit facility on this particular parcel." Which is quite different from the complication of trying to address layover needs with a comprehensive analysis of layover operations and which parcels and projects would potentially meet that need.

[twincitizen]

It seems likely that Gateway Ramp will stick around in its current incarnation for another generation, supporting additional redevelopment around it. See Latitude 45 to the west and the potential full block redevelopment site to the east, which could lean heavily on Gateway for parking contracts. Doesn't mean that it has to be so damn ugly though...it would be nice to see it re-clad with a more modern facade.

As for buses, until there is a serious replacement plan, no Gateway simply can't just go away. Transit agencies have already lost a ton of layover space in recent years - to development of surface lots, to curbside bike lanes, etc. (all good things!) - it would cripple the system to lose Gateway at this time. Getting away from the intent of this thread, but one possibility could be the much talked about 35W lid project. Bus layover space could be provided at the present-day "trench" level, and buses would just shoot into downtown via the existing 3rd St/4th St depression. Actually you could implement some of that idea today by simply getting rid of the loop ramp to 35W south and building layover space there. Just keep in mind how incredibly expensive that is in operating dollars. We just don't have the flexibility in our transit budgets to add 10+ minutes to each outbound PM trip.

[amiller92]

It seems likely that Gateway Ramp will stick around in its current incarnation for another generation, supporting additional redevelopment around it. See Latitude 45 to the west and the potential full block redevelopment site to the east, which could lean heavily on Gateway for parking contracts.

Hm. My guess is that on net the Gateway Ramp is a drag on redevelopment, not a support. Latitude 45, for example, has it's own underground parking. I don't think you can sell/rent units at these price points with the promise of a contract across the street.

Regardless, I don't think it's going away any times soon.

[twincitizen]

Latitude 45 has just 153 spaces for over 300 units, and I'd guess a number (50?) of those spaces are reserved for the commercial tenants, leaving about 100 spaces for residents. It definitely leans heavily on people getting parking contracts elsewhere, probably primarily at Gateway, since it is skyway connected and next door.

[mattaudio]

Why is the Leamington ramp so awful? It's only 20-25 years old right? Three of the four blockfaces are a rat's nest of 10+ curb cuts - only the 2nd Ave frontage is clear from those, but that frontage is a long, inactivated wall of glass.

What's the actual transit use of this facility? A layover hangout point? Seems vastly underused compared to its built purpose.

[MNdible]

I think that the Leamington was designed to house one end of the never-executed Nicollet Mall circulator (similar to the service provided on Denver's 16th Street Mall). The Gateway block was to have been the other end. Buses coming off of 35W would have stopped there, and everybody would have transferred onto the circulators.

[mattaudio]

Ahh, yes, I forgot about that. And weren't the bus facilities in the A/B/C ramps designed for the same thing? While I have my nits to pick with the way we allocate space for express buses in the downtown core... It sure seems like having express buses cross downtown is much preferable - and likely results in a much higher ridership - than requiring a *transfer* to go the last few blocks to/from one's office.

[FISHMANPET]

In general I'm sure you're correct, but trying to emulate Denver's situation exactly, I think a 90 second wait in an enclosed maybe somewhat climate controlled parking ramp area before getting on my connector, and conversely waiting 90 seconds on the street and then waiting 5 minutes in that same parking ramp could be preferable to waiting 5 minutes for your bus on the street in the cold.

[sanchopanza]

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... epair.html

Car repair to car parking.

409 S 9th Street Minneapolis, MN

"A LAZ Parking employee said his company bought the building last week. The company has been waving flags on 9th Street, trying to lure commuters in with a $6 daily rate, which beats most other lots in the area."

[acs]

So wait, we have a prohibition against tearing down buildings for parking, but we didn't think to block converting building to parking ramps?

[grant1simons2]

Lately, it doesn't seem like we have either.

[MNdible]

OK, who pissed in Grant's Cheerios?

[Silophant]

That would be our good friends Bobby and Steve.

[grant1simons2]

It's just silly. They can't be making more that $250k a year on parking in this building. There's maybe around 100 spots? If that? Assuming it's 100 and all spots are filled each day, you're making $219,000, and that counts the weekends. Of course event parking rates and short term parking will drive up your profit more. But you also have to pay taxes on the property. Are they employing anyone? They could make a good $2.5-3 million if they sold it next year as long as Elliot Park keeps getting warmer for development.