Vikings Stadium Miscellaneous Discussion

[Avian]

I really don't think that's a glass roof. It's more likely a fabric tensioned roof or ETFE system like the one in New Zealand:

[Nathan]

http://prod.static.vikings.clubs.nfl.co ... or-big.jpg

Here's an even better pic. FANTASTIC! Drooling...

Glass atriums like that are pretty notorious for leaking in our climate (i.e. Crystal Court, Galtier/CRAY Plaza). I just don't see that being very practical with our wild temperature shifts. But sure would be very cool.

Do you think the fact that it's open air would change that a bit? I think usually that wear and tear happens in those climate controlled spaces because of constant condensation in the building materials. Since this will typically be the same temperature on the outside as it is on the inside of the glass I'd imagine it would be condensing considerably less? In the masonry industry when a brick chimney is condensing a lot, the moisture softens the brick, and it crumbles. The easy solution is to instal 'brick vents' on each side of the chimney allowing the outside air into the chimney chase keeping it more balanced, and the deterioration stops happening.

[Didier]

That's not a photo of the New Zealand stadium, is it? What's that stadium called (or going to be called)?

[spectre000]

I don't see condensation being a major issue, the problem I see with a glass ceiling is the effects of freezing and thawing. Joints and seams will constrict and expand leading to leaks.

But after reading online about ETFE, that sounds very promising.

[Rich]

Here's a link to the New Zealand stadium:

http://www.forsythbarrstadium.co.nz/stadium

[Nathan]

I don't see condensation being a major issue, the problem I see with a glass ceiling is the effects of freezing and thawing. Joints and seams will constrict and expand leading to leaks.

But after reading online about ETFE, that sounds very promising.

The reason condensation is an issue is because there are only so many natural freeze thaw cycles every year, a climate controlled space creates it's own condensation even when there is no precipitation, making daily freeze thaw cycles through out the winter. Being open air it would only have to go through the natural ones. But yes the ETFE system looks great.

[min-chi-cbus]

Someone gave me this idea (or maybe I stole it): why not have a roof and NOT heat or cool the inside? In other words, let the sun warm it up naturally or sit inside a cool stadium with no water or wind elements. Is that just stupid? It seemingly would solve the condensation issue...

[m b p]

Someone gave me this idea (or maybe I stole it): why not have a roof and NOT heat or cool the inside? In other words, let the sun warm it up naturally or sit inside a cool stadium with no water or wind elements. Is that just stupid? It seemingly would solve the condensation issue...

Architects and engineers already use this type of thinking in making their designs. The skylights at the mall of america let in a lot of light... resulting in heat. If there are natural ways of heating up the building, especially in this era of design, someone is on it. That isn't to say that the sun can do it all on its own.

If we wanted to build a big building that did nothing other than host football games 8-11 times a year, that might be a reasonable idea. However, this stadium will do many more things than host football 8-11 times a year. These other things might happen after the sun sets.

[moda253]

Someone gave me this idea (or maybe I stole it): why not have a roof and NOT heat or cool the inside? In other words, let the sun warm it up naturally or sit inside a cool stadium with no water or wind elements. Is that just stupid? It seemingly would solve the condensation issue...

Architects and engineers already use this type of thinking in making their designs. The skylights at the mall of america let in a lot of light... resulting in heat. If there are natural ways of heating up the building, especially in this era of design, someone is on it. That isn't to say that the sun can do it all on its own.

If we wanted to build a big building that did nothing other than host football games 8-11 times a year, that might be a reasonable idea. However, this stadium will do many more things than host football 8-11 times a year. These other things might happen after the sun sets.

So why does this work at the MOA but couldn't work at the stadium? I think too much emphasis is being put on condesation here. Obviously it is working at MOA and the area it is in is pretty damn big.

[Nathan]

Someone gave me this idea (or maybe I stole it): why not have a roof and NOT heat or cool the inside? In other words, let the sun warm it up naturally or sit inside a cool stadium with no water or wind elements. Is that just stupid? It seemingly would solve the condensation issue...

Architects and engineers already use this type of thinking in making their designs. The skylights at the mall of america let in a lot of light... resulting in heat. If there are natural ways of heating up the building, especially in this era of design, someone is on it. That isn't to say that the sun can do it all on its own.

If we wanted to build a big building that did nothing other than host football games 8-11 times a year, that might be a reasonable idea. However, this stadium will do many more things than host football 8-11 times a year. These other things might happen after the sun sets.

So why does this work at the MOA but couldn't work at the stadium? I think too much emphasis is being put on condesation here. Obviously it is working at MOA and the area it is in is pretty damn big.

I don't think the condensation should be that big of a deal, it's just a common maintenance nightmare in our climate. My impression of that particular rendering is that under that big arch is just open air, making it impossible to be climate controlled? We're just having fun until we see more concrete plans...

[Avian]

So why does this work at the MOA but couldn't work at the stadium? I think too much emphasis is being put on condesation here. Obviously it is working at MOA and the area it is in is pretty damn big.

The Mall of America doesn't even have a central heating system. But it's unlike the stadium in that there are roughly 100,000 people in the building nearly every day. Add to that source of "human heat" the enormous amount of lighting and equipment and you get a building that has to be air-conditioned even in the winter.

[min-chi-cbus]

The reply about the stadium being more than just a place to play football explains it all to me....otherwise that could totally be feasible (but also such a waste of an expensive facility).

[Le Sueur]

I was going to make the same point Avian did as well, body heat is huge.
But I also agree with min-chi-cbus that it seems like a waste.

Anyone know how the current heating system works at the dome? I seem to remember it being advertised as carrier? Anyway, I had a thought, doubting it would be very workable from an engineering standpoint. But on the topic of HVAC I think it would be cool if a stadium could tie into a centralized plant and more or less draw off surplus capacity from said plant for Sunday games.

I mean in a perfect world UofM classrooms would dip 15 degrees on gameday and the Southeast Steam Plant would warm up the new stadium. Maybe this only seems plausible to me because I can never imagine the Viks playing many games January?

Anyway you slice it HVAC is going to be a large expense, but if there are any experts here who want to share some reasons why my idea is crazy, or for that matter why target field doesn't pull any heat from the incinerator it has next door feel free to share.

[spectre000]

Big News!

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 42191.html

Ryan Cos. has agreement to buy Star Tribune's downtown land
by: JANET MOORE , Star Tribune

"A representative with Ryan Companies U.S. Inc. said Tuesday that the firm has an agreement to buy land owned by the Star Tribune in downtown Minneapolis for a future mixed-use development.

Terms were not disclosed.

Rick Collins, vice president of development for the Minneapolis-based developer, said Ryan has an option to purchase the parcels, which are adjacent to the proposed $975 million Vikings stadium and the Downtown East/Metrodome light rail station. Ryan is looking at "multiple development scenarios" for the plots, he said."

[Tom H.]

Big News!

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 42191.html

Hmm. That link is broken now... but a Google search shows the same headline, although it is broken too. Did the Strib take this item down? Was this news not ready to be announced?

[mattaudio]

My guess too. Even Sam Black reposted it on his blog, but without many details. Anyone have a cache of it?

[spectre000]

I posted the entire article. Not much details. I'm happy to see it be Ryan Cos. I was hoping Hines would buy it. But we could have done a lot worse as far as developers go.

[gahwi003]

Which blocks is the article referring to? SW, and NW of 4th & Portland?

[spectre000]

From twitter,

"Star Tribune spokesman Steve Yaeger: Reports that Ryan Cos. has a deal to buy Star Tribune land are NOT accurate."

[Didier]

Ryan Cos. and the Star Tribune have agreed to an exclusive negotiation period to work out a development deal for the newspaper's downtown property.

http://www.startribune.com/business/183042191.html