Vikings Stadium Miscellaneous Discussion

[Didier]

I don't know much about FedEx Field as far as construction costs, but it is notorious for being a soulless suburban stadium that was built purely to profit the team. The Redskins were known for having some of the most passionate fans at RFK Stadium, which is actually in D.C., but that was lost when they moved into suburban Maryland.

Given how much money sports teams are earning from TV now, I think it's a mistake for modern stadiums to cater so heavily toward the wealthy fans. I'd love to see a large section of the new Vikings stadium designated for reasonably-priced season tickets, similar to supporters' sections at European soccer stadiums, so the most passionate fans can still afford to get into games and create the atmosphere that the rich people are paying to be a part of.

I don't think it's that unreasonable of a request, since NFL games are actually struggling to sell out in many cities now. Making the games more accessible to average fans seems like a much better solution than continuing to raise prices while adding wifi and iPads at every seat.

[TWA]

So just doing so math here... and the west elevation is supposed to be around 290 ft- with the field about 50 ft below grade... any other stadiums have nearly 350 feet separating the playing surface and the roof line? That sounds absurd to me

[gpete]

It is pretty crazy to think about the height of this thing. 290 is the same height as Skyscape.

[TWA]

If it is covered in a semi translucent material I think it would be cool if they added lots of lighting effects (see the munich soccer stadium)
Edit: called Allianz Arena

[RailBaronYarr]

I have really high hopes that TCF, Xcel, and Target Field will be able to sustain themselves for, like, 50 years without needing any major modifications, but who the heck knows?

I feel like Xcel is starting to show some age. Still a kick ass facility though.

Thank you for proving my point - even one of the nicest venues in the country will start to be called out by locals as showing age by some people. And it's only been 12 years! Now imagine another 18 goes by. How can we expect the X (or any venue) to be around mostly as-is for 100 years?

[Didier]

One poster saying Xcel Energy Center is "showing some age" doesn't equate to any imminent need to renovate.

I'm not sure what the basis of the "showing some age" comment is, but Xcel Energy Center is one of the five newest NHL arenas and is uniformly recognized as one of the best hockey-specific arenas in the world. They continue to make small improvements to the arena every year, and it will undoubtedly probably need a more substantial facelift at some point 15 years down the road. But there's no indication that the Xcel Energy Center is getting outdated and will need to be replaced any time in the next several decades.

[THERAT]

Will they announce at this time how the MD will come down? We haven't had a good implosion in the cities for while. Lowry Bridge, Conservatory, Curtis hotel. Given the short construction timeline wouldn't be surprised if it is impolded. Maybe get one of the Dome haters(Ditka?) to press the button.

[RailBaronYarr]

I'm not saying it is. I believe that is still is extremely nice, functional, and revenue-producing for the Wild and has great multi-functional capabilities. Yes, one poster on this board doesn't mean anything; s/he very well may be the only person in the state with that view. However, I doubt it. Once people start saying things, it snowballs. I would bet there are more out there who view the X as 'nice' today but in 5-10 years will say it's "starting to show its age" and another 5-10 after that when the team begins pushing harder for upgrade/replacement we will hear a LOT of it. We have a long history of this - the Met Center needed replacing, we didn't, the NorthStars left. The Met Stadium was built and opened early 60s, we got a new stadium for the Vikes/Twins in the early 80s, and campaigning for new stadiums for each of them began <20 years later. There is precedent and I am sad to say I don't think we will even finish paying back this Vikings stadium before people are calling the design/function of it outdated and needing major overhaul/replacement.

[MotorCity2TwinCities]

It is pretty crazy to think about the height of this thing. 290 is the same height as Skyscape.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I was looking out the window at Skyscape earlier. That blows my mind.

[Rich]

I'm pretty sure it'll be 50 ft below grade and 240 ft above. Not positive though.

[MNdible]

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that a 12 year old facility that handles over a million people a year through it's doors might need some upgrades and TLC, but there's a huge difference between that and needing to tear down and start from scratch.

I know that a number of the stadium deals set aside money for future maintenance, which I would assume includes things like new seats in addition to mundane things like roof repairs. Some have clauses about keeping the facility competitive with other league facilities, but I'm not sure if those clauses are typically funded.

[Didier]

I'm not saying it is. I believe that is still is extremely nice, functional, and revenue-producing for the Wild and has great multi-functional capabilities. Yes, one poster on this board doesn't mean anything; s/he very well may be the only person in the state with that view. However, I doubt it. Once people start saying things, it snowballs. I would bet there are more out there who view the X as 'nice' today but in 5-10 years will say it's "starting to show its age" and another 5-10 after that when the team begins pushing harder for upgrade/replacement we will hear a LOT of it. We have a long history of this - the Met Center needed replacing, we didn't, the NorthStars left. The Met Stadium was built and opened early 60s, we got a new stadium for the Vikes/Twins in the early 80s, and campaigning for new stadiums for each of them began <20 years later. There is precedent and I am sad to say I don't think we will even finish paying back this Vikings stadium before people are calling the design/function of it outdated and needing major overhaul/replacement.

The point is that by any comparative measure, Xcel Energy Center is still going to be a "new" arena for a long time. There's no basis to say that it's "showing some age" when it is a newer, nicer arena than the vast majority of those being used in the NBA and NHL right now.

[spearson]

I don't mean that it's showing some age as in it's starting to look rundown, or is starting to be a miserable fan experience, or it's no longer nice. I'm just saying the design of the arena looks a little aged in that I feel it was the beginning of the trend to have wide open concourses that open to the interior of the stadium. It was amazing to stand in the concourse and still see the game versus feeling like you're in another world when standing in the concourse at the dome or target center. But it's only open on the sides, and now the trend is to be open all the way around.

Look at target field, you pretty much have access to see the game from any spot in the upper or lower concourse and I bet the new vikings stadium will be no different. People are going to get use to how open and nice our two newest stadiums are and I think it will amplify some of the flaws of Xcel's design.

Don't get me wrong though, I love the Xcel! There isn't a bad seat in the house.

Design is everything. I live in an 90 year old house, it looks old, but it doesn't look dated. In fact it has some timeless design features! Wide open main floor, 9 ft ceilings, huge windows. The house feels big, but it's only like 1400sq ft. In comparison, a friend lives in a 70's rambler that is about 2000 sq ft, and the place feels super dated and small. Every room is walled off, windows are small and few and the ceiling is lower. It's amazing the difference.

[spearson]

Also, in comparison to Miller Park, the Xcel is light years ahead. They are the roughly the same age, but they missed the boat with Miller Park, walking around that place makes you feel like you're walking around in a bomb shelter. It's about as welcoming and warm as the dome. I hate it. Populous had the foresight to open up the concourse, and they made the right choice. I don't think Miller is going to age well at all.

[mullen]

i just hope the architects give us something to be proud of with the new vikes stadium. it's going to be so massive and have such an impact on the skyline/cityscape for decades.

[RailBaronYarr]

I don't mean that it's showing some age as in it's starting to look rundown, or is starting to be a miserable fan experience, or it's no longer nice. I'm just saying the design of the arena looks a little aged in that I feel it was the beginning of the trend to have wide open concourses that open to the interior of the stadium. It was amazing to stand in the concourse and still see the game versus feeling like you're in another world when standing in the concourse at the dome or target center. But it's only open on the sides, and now the trend is to be open all the way around.

But this is exactly my point. We're not talking about it now because it still feels pretty new, the NHL hasn't exactly done very well lately so there aren't expansions or big budgets for new arenas by comparison. It helps that we didn't go cheap on the get go. BUT the very thing you're talking about is what we will start to hear from people - it's not open all the way around. The number of suites isn't enough to pull in big revenue, or something I can't even predict. Again, I'm not saying it's bad or what year this will happen, just stating concern that we have precedent for doing this with football and baseball venues in our area.

[MNdible]

Again, I'm not saying it's bad or what year this will happen, just stating concern that we have precedent for doing this with football and baseball venues in our area.

By "in our area", do you mean the earth?

I hope that the Target Center remodel is a precedent for future improvements.

[emcee squared]

Just over a week until we are all very happy or mightily disappointed. I'm leaning towards happy. This will likely be the last major arena/stadium in the Twin Cities for quite a while, so we better go big. The leaks of the design point to just that.

[RailBaronYarr]

Again, I'm not saying it's bad or what year this will happen, just stating concern that we have precedent for doing this with football and baseball venues in our area.

By "in our area", do you mean the earth?

I hope that the Target Center remodel is a precedent for future improvements.

I mean specifically MSP. I already pointed to how in the span of 50 years we have had 2 complexes to house football/baseball with a third built in that timeframe for baseball and another football stadium on the way just outside the 5 decade mark. We can use hindsight all we want to say that whatever was lacking in previous-gen stadia justified tearing them down and building new ones and that it won't happen again. I remain unconvinced. If you told me with 98% certainty the Viking's stadium would last us 80 years before needing to be torn, and in that time we renovate it one time (@ 30 year mark - updates to exterior, signage, amenities, etc but structure remains largely as-is) with partial public funding, I might be convinced it's worth it. As it stands, I tend to believe we'll act as we have throughout history and build a new one in 30 years just as we finish paying this one off because the structure just can't keep up with current NFL demands.

[Nick]

As someone who has been generally paying attention to the world for about ten years now, I can say with certainty that no one knows anything about anything five years from now. And if they do, they got lucky