Latitude 45 - 301 Washington Avenue South

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
min-chi-cbus
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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby min-chi-cbus » February 21st, 2014, 9:00 am

As much as I'm exited to see these blocks get developed I'm apprehensive as to the reason they're being developed the way that they are. Full block developments in short stature are terrible for future development, regardless of being new development or not. Look at the core of downtown. The only way to build there now, is to tear down a building that already exists, for the most part. DTE is getting a boost from the stadium no doubt, but downtown as a whole has limited space. Build higher on a smaller footprint, and you gain availability for future investment if not speculation. Build a 9 story block and its locked down for a generation. In the mean time, green space could be added that would attract said speculation and lead to further development. Besides, you must build higher on the periferi if you want to maintain the hat like structure of the skyline, because it drives taller development to the center. There is a reason why one third of downtown Minni was razed in the late 50s and early 60s. This is it.
The problem with that idea is that unless it's your land and your money you can't dictate what others do with their assets. Well, you CAN dictate some, but developers don't love that and may decide not to develop at all. If Opus, for example, purchases an entire city block and wants to develop a stout, 10 story building in lieu of a massive 40 story slim tower, that's their business UNLESS there are some city codes and zoning laws that prohibit those types of developments (like you elude to). However, if that makes the development more expensive with less overall profit for the developer, the project may be a no-go.

So even though I agree with you 100% that development should never utilize more than half a city block at most, it's not wise for the city to enforce such a rule in a market that frankly is never so "white hot" that it can do whatever it wants and developers will still be happy to build there (like Manhattan, it seems).

SixOneTwo
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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby SixOneTwo » February 21st, 2014, 10:17 am

Jersey barriers were going up this morning.

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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby Silophant » February 21st, 2014, 10:19 am

Alatus also bought the two properties on 3rd Street from the family. Looks like this monolith will grow to 3/4 of a city block. egh.

http://finance-commerce.com/2014/02/ala ... titude-45/
Construction is already starting, isn't it? I doubt this building is being expanded at this stage. Another, separate building next to it, I'd welcome.
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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby seanrichardryan » February 21st, 2014, 11:57 am

Upon further investigation, 'future hotel' indeed.
Image
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 111915.pdf

That corner minus the gateway ramp has some good street friendly buildings with potential.
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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby mattaudio » February 21st, 2014, 12:46 pm

A hotel along 3rd. Gosh, at some point it seems like we should be making 3rd Street more pedestrian friendly.
Especially considering how Washington Ave's rebuild is designed to accommodate commuters in cars, overdesigned even for over-the-top projections, including that "continuous right turn lane." Washington was designed without regard for how 3-lane 3rd Street accommodates westbound traffic.

So, given that, the city should go ahead and remove a lane, to make the street more compatible with human-scale land use rather than a funnel from freeways to the Gateway ramp. Maybe it could even be a two-way street east of 2nd Ave S? http://nacto.org/usdg/interim-design-st ... -the-curb/

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby min-chi-cbus » February 21st, 2014, 12:53 pm

Is there already a thread for the hotel portion of this project, or is this a brand new development (story)? If the former, what's the name of the thread?

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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby Tom H. » February 21st, 2014, 1:04 pm

Gosh, at some point it seems like we should be making 3rd Street more pedestrian friendly.
4th St too - that's a pretty wide 3-lane one-way (plus contraflow lane) separating those future apartments/office uses from the park there. I'm also tempted to re-think the use of 4th as the major east-west transit spine now that the 50/16 are (mostly) going away. Having the 3 and 16 run through 7 Corners and into DT along Washington seems to me like a good idea.

If you did that, you could convert 4th St into a 4-lane two-way street (similar to 4th Ave, perhaps), convert 3rd St into a 2-lane two-way street with better pedestrian and bike facilities, and you'd still have the same number of total traffic lanes (6) that you started with.

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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby mattaudio » February 21st, 2014, 1:09 pm

This would also set up a future connection of 3rd Street across the BNSF trench into the North Loop...

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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby mister.shoes » February 21st, 2014, 1:14 pm

This would also set up a future connection of 3rd Street across the BNSF trench into the North Loop...
And repairing the grid by connecting 3rd and 4th properly over the 35W trench to Cedar-Riverside...
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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby Tyler » February 21st, 2014, 2:02 pm

Is there already a thread for the hotel portion of this project, or is this a brand new development (story)? If the former, what's the name of the thread?
The only news is that Alatus closed on land which they had designated "future hotel" in the 2013 prelim plans. There's no thread for it because there is no actual proposal (yet).
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Nathan
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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby Nathan » February 21st, 2014, 2:41 pm

Isn't there a Road Geek topics thread?

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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby Anondson » February 21st, 2014, 2:50 pm

This would also set up a future connection of 3rd Street across the BNSF trench into the North Loop...
And repairing the grid by connecting 3rd and 4th properly over the 35W trench to Cedar-Riverside...
Like this.
https://streets.mn/2013/01/22/addressing ... rhood-gap/

I still look back at it and dream. Sometimes I think the recovered land alone could fund a lot of it. Anyway, off topic.

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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby mattaudio » February 21st, 2014, 3:29 pm

Mister.Shoes, time to repost your photoshopped google map over in that road geek thread! Our plan is epic!

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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby mister.shoes » February 21st, 2014, 3:51 pm

The problem with being an introvert online is that no one knows you're just hanging out and listening.

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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby MNdible » February 21st, 2014, 4:35 pm

Worship it! Love it! Accept it!

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Nick
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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby Nick » February 21st, 2014, 5:39 pm

I'd be okay saying that 3rd Street is a service street, similar to Lasalle Avenue. Big cities have streets like that. Can't have wall to wall sidewalk cafes everywhere.
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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby John » February 22nd, 2014, 10:58 am

One of the nice things about this project is that an already existing parking ramp will be used. allowing most of the frontage of the new construction to be pedestrian oriented. Agree with Nick , there will always be parts of an exterior of an urban building that will be utilitarian . The thing is to design it with as minimal an impact as possible.

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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby Wedgeguy » February 23rd, 2014, 9:09 pm

I think for some the confusion is there is a proposal for an apartment and hotel on Washington around the corners of Park or Chicago intersections. I'm too lazy tonight to look who the developer is or which corner, but it will hopefully help to ease confusion that there are now two different apartment/hotel plans for along Washington not that many blocks apart.

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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby lordmoke » February 24th, 2014, 10:27 am

Trailers, equipment, fencing, and work being done on site today. I'd say this one's officially under construction.

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Re: Latitude 45 - (301 Washington Avenue South)

Postby MotorCity2TwinCities » February 24th, 2014, 1:27 pm

I think for some the confusion is there is a proposal for an apartment and hotel on Washington around the corners of Park or Chicago intersections. I'm too lazy tonight to look who the developer is or which corner, but it will hopefully help to ease confusion that there are now two different apartment/hotel plans for along Washington not that many blocks apart.
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