TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Silophant
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby Silophant » November 10th, 2014, 6:22 pm

Glad to hear it's still moving forward. Honestly, 15 or 50 stories would both be just fine, as long as it keeps its distance from the Foshay.

grant1simons2
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby grant1simons2 » November 10th, 2014, 6:27 pm

This will be using smaller floor plates and considerate of Foshay. I know for a fact Franklin Street wants this to be ~60 stories.

acs
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby acs » November 10th, 2014, 6:32 pm

grant1simons2 wrote:This will be using smaller floor plates and considerate of Foshay. I know for a fact Franklin Street wants this to be ~60 stories.
He's back! Thank you again for your contributions.

grant1simons2
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby grant1simons2 » November 10th, 2014, 6:34 pm

Thank you! I'll be on and off. I still check here for transportation news because this is probably the best site for it.

John
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby John » November 10th, 2014, 8:18 pm

Silophant wrote:Glad to hear it's still moving forward. Honestly, 15 or 50 stories would both be just fine, as long as it keeps its distance from the Foshay.
I think its relationship with the historic Foshay will be an important factor in it's design. Can't imagine it wouldn't.

MinnMonkey
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby MinnMonkey » November 11th, 2014, 10:44 am

HiawathaGuy wrote:Interesting... 175,000 to 600,000 Sq Ft., quite the range!

TCF Bank Building owner looks at hotel/office redevelopment for site
The article states the current building is 4-stories and 170,000 sq/ft. Unless the floor plates are much smaller, even at 600,000 sq/feet would only be 15-20 stories.

MNdible
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby MNdible » November 11th, 2014, 11:05 am

The parcel is 165'x221', so if you did maximum build out, you only get 36,465 sf per floor. As noted above, I don't think anything that doesn't give the Foshay at least a modest amount of breathing room will be a non-starter, so you're probably looking at a reasonable maximum of 25,000 sf per floor.

aeisenberg
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby aeisenberg » November 11th, 2014, 1:56 pm

grant1simons2 wrote:This will be using smaller floor plates and considerate of Foshay. I know for a fact Franklin Street wants this to be ~60 stories.
That would be amazing, but at 600,000 sq ft max, and 25,000/floor, that's just 24 floors and about 300-360' tall, no?
Aaron Eisenberg / Realtor, Keller Williams Integrity
612.568.5828 / aaron@agentaaron.com / 1350 Lagoon Ave #900
http://www.agentaaron.com

bubzki2
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby bubzki2 » November 11th, 2014, 2:14 pm

spdcheetah wrote:That would be amazing, but at 600,000 sq ft max, and 25,000/floor, that's just 24 floors and about 300-360' tall, no?
... leaving it comfortably shorter than the Foshay's 447 ft. roof. I could believe it.

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Avian
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby Avian » November 11th, 2014, 3:14 pm

There are too many variables to predict a height. So I will... :)

If they do go for 600,000 sf build out then perhaps the best guess is that the floor plates would be considerably smaller than 25,000 sq. ft. They have already said they will keep the existing 17-story tower. If they do not physically attach this to a new tower then there would have to be decent setabacks from both this building and the Foshay. That would cut the new tower's footprint to around 120x120 and the floorplates to less than 15,000 sf. And that's assuming there is no taper to the building. The floorplates could average 15,000 sf but the building could be 50+ stories.

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”
― Plato

m b p
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby m b p » November 11th, 2014, 3:38 pm

25k sq foot floor plates are too high. Think more in the line of 12-15k per floor.

This is the space we're talking about:
Image
The big box is the entire block. The smaller box (upper left) is the tower location. If they were to max out that tower space, we'd be looking at 150' x 180' = 27k sq ft per floor.

However, we all know we can't crowd the Foshay.
I imagine the tower will have floor plates of around 120' x 120' = 14400 sq ft per floor.
600,000 total sq ft / 14,400 per floor = 42 floors (approx).
42 floors @ 15' per floor = 630 ft. + crown = 700+ feet.

This tower has 650,000 sq ft. It has 14k-15k sq ft per floor. It is 50 floors. It is 750 ft tall.
Image
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model. ... aaa991f630


*Edit.... Ha funny. I guessed 120 x 120 too Avian. You beat me to it.
Last edited by m b p on November 11th, 2014, 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aeisenberg
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby aeisenberg » November 11th, 2014, 4:05 pm

FORUM MODERATORS, I NEED MORE CELEBRATORY EMOJI CHOICES.
Aaron Eisenberg / Realtor, Keller Williams Integrity
612.568.5828 / aaron@agentaaron.com / 1350 Lagoon Ave #900
http://www.agentaaron.com

twinkess
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby twinkess » November 11th, 2014, 4:43 pm

Holy cow a turning torso tower would be so attractive!

mog
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby mog » November 12th, 2014, 8:34 am

twinkess wrote:Holy cow a turning torso tower would be so attractive!
I agree, that is a great design mbp.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 12th, 2014, 2:06 pm

I like how it kind of looks like the Statue of Liberty the way the buildings step up in succession like that. Like the new taller one is the arm being raised, and the other two are the body leaning a bit to the left.

I don't know if others see exactly what I mean but that's the first thing that came to my mind, and it seems.......elegant!

grant1simons2
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby grant1simons2 » February 20th, 2015, 3:23 pm

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... +Estate%29

2 Options being discussed currently for this site:
An office-only development that it would have about 200,000 square feet of space that Wakefield, Mass.-based Franklin Street (NYSE: FSP) would develop on its own.
A larger mixed-use development in a 45-story tower that would also include a four-star, full-service hotel at the base, about 200,000 square feet of office space in the middle and about 220 to 250 residential units on top.

Silophant
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby Silophant » February 20th, 2015, 3:43 pm

I'm kind if curious about how all that stuff fits into an only 45-story tower, given how small this lot is.

grant1simons2
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby grant1simons2 » February 20th, 2015, 3:49 pm

It's a Perkins + Will design maybe. I know they were working with Franklin Street Prop. earlier. They have some skinny skinny towers. Anyways. Most towers are pretty skinny now too. There are spots in NYC about the same lot size that have 50-70 story towers

Silophant
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby Silophant » February 20th, 2015, 4:15 pm

Right, that's pretty much what I'm saying. I'd expect a skinny tower on this lot, say, similar footprint to 4Marq. That gets you about 12ksf office space or 12 residential units per floor. 240 units is 20 floors, and 200ksf office is 17 floors, leaving only 8 floors for 250 hotel rooms and associated amenities. Idk, guess we'll find out.

sushisimo
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby sushisimo » February 21st, 2015, 10:50 am

Didn't Perkins+Will work on the Duval proposal?


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