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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 2:51 pm
by Ubermoose
A kick to the bikini region.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:04 pm
by matthew5080
I can't say that this is surprising though. Too much time passed with little to no information being shared about the project.
It'll be interesting to see what they come up with for the "redevelopment".

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:08 pm
by acs
If it's the four season switching to United that killed this, then it's really a double whammy since that project also has such a low chance of getting built. United is banking on a skyway connection via the library, but Opus essentially has veto power over that due to controlling the ritz block. So far we've seen absolutely no movement nor news from them even though they have sat with permits in hand for half a year. We have to root for one of the consensus worst projects out there to even have a chance of salvaging a good one.

I think we've seen the peak of the building boom, and it really only ranged from 30 floor luxury towers down to a scattering of 5 over 1's. LPM isn't even fully leased yet, and 4Marq is only 6% leased last I heard a week ago. The office market got over saturated pretty quick too it seems. It was always going to be hard to follow after Wells Fargo decided to build nearly a million square feet and not bring in any new workers to fill it. It's amazing that T3 even got off the ground, I guess that's why they haven't announced any tenants yet (hey, Cray could have moved there!). An overall declining downtown workforce as employers lay off or leave for suburbs and like clockwork we start seeing office conversions to apartments. That might be the best we could hope for here.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:12 pm
by jw138
MS3 was right. They got frustrated with the 400 foot height limit and gave up.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:17 pm
by VacantLuxuries
#Il400minati

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:26 pm
by mnmike
acs wrote:If it's the four season switching to United that killed this, then it's really a double whammy since that project also has such a low chance of getting built. United is banking on a skyway connection via the library, but Opus essentially has veto power over that due to controlling the ritz block. So far we've seen absolutely no movement nor news from them even though they have sat with permits in hand for half a year. We have to root for one of the consensus worst projects out there to even have a chance of salvaging a good one.

I think we've seen the peak of the building boom, and it really only ranged from 30 floor luxury towers down to a scattering of 5 over 1's. LPM isn't even fully leased yet, and 4Marq is only 6% leased last I heard a week ago. The office market got over saturated pretty quick too it seems. It was always going to be hard to follow after Wells Fargo decided to build nearly a million square feet and not bring in any new workers to fill it. It's amazing that T3 even got off the ground, I guess that's why they haven't announced any tenants yet (hey, Cray could have moved there!). An overall declining downtown workforce as employers lay off or leave for suburbs and like clockwork we start seeing office conversions to apartments. That might be the best we could hope for here.
Wow, that was about as negative as one could be. I don't think we have an overall declining work force...I am pretty sure we have at least stayed equal or had a net gain downtown...with more companies moving in than out lately.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:29 pm
by Silophant
I mean, it's acs.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:32 pm
by acs
I mean, your welcome to use facts to disagree, or you could be an ass and keep your head in the sand. I see you chose the latter.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:37 pm
by MNdible
If not for Target's significant cutbacks, downtown employment would be up significantly. Even with this, all signs seem positive for downtown. Unfortunately for new office construction, employers keep figuring out new ways to pack more employees into less space.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:40 pm
by mnmike
acs wrote:I mean, your welcome to use facts to disagree, or you could be an ass and keep your head in the sand. I see you chose the latter.
Wow, rude.

PS, downtown employment numbers are readily available...feel free to look those up, as you didn't use any facts either...pretty sure they support what I said.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:45 pm
by Nathan
While I wouldn't be upset with another tower here, it just seems to be crowding the block anyways. It was never somewhere I envisioned or wanted one of the next towers. So I'm not really bothered. Just means the opportunity spreads to other more likely sites. It blows by mind how attached people get to every proposal. It's crazy how close some of you get to the edge every time. Deep breaths. So many amazing things are happening in this city. We'll get another tower when we do. In the mean time why don't y'all all work on some new start ups so that we can create more demand for office space... or just continue to spew end of the city Armageddon nonsense from behind your keyboards.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 3:48 pm
by mnmike
I agree...I was never thrilled with the placement of this one...ah well.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 6:08 pm
by Tiller
MS3 strikes again!

One a related note, downtown's development/growth loop doesn't seem quite as healthy as I'd hope. I'm still sticking with my estimate that there'll be a recession in either 2017 or 2018. The business cycle can't be avoided.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 6:41 pm
by grant1simons2
Strib says its just on hold.

http://m.startribune.com/franklin-puts- ... 377192831/

Just a thought: We would've never known about this project if FSP was private. It would have lived and "died" without any of us knowing.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 9:37 pm
by MS3
There is a major reason why Minneapolis won't see another tower over the 500 ft barrier and very likely not over the "so called 400 ft height restriction". And trust me when I say this- it's not what most people on here think (too much vacancy, cramming employees into smaller spaces, fear of a recession, ect ect) if I give my insight, my posts are deleted by a moderater. So I guess my knowledge can't be shared.. Which is unfortunate, because I have many many facts. it says a lot about this forum when moderators delete most of my postings.
I think it's unfortunate that this downtown has fallen victim to this height jinx and unfortunate that I can't explain what I know because my post will be deleted.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 9:41 pm
by grant1simons2
All of your posts are in the Anything Goes section under "Theories"

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 9:59 pm
by MS3
Not all.. Only some, depending on what was written

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 10:00 pm
by Silophant
None of your posts have been deleted. Conversations that stray too far from the project at hand in a given thread get moved to more appropriate threads. This happens all over the forum, both to posts about a 400-foot height limit in the Thrivent lot that get made in the Portland Tower thread and to posts about the long-term sustainability of alcove-style units in the West Calhoun Apartments thread.

If you have many facts to share, by all means share them. If they are facts about city policies that have sustained themselves through multiple mayors and a full turnover of the City Council, surely there's some trace of it somewhere online that can be linked to.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 26th, 2016, 10:21 pm
by TroyGBiv
I know RT Rybak... there are no yetis, no Loch Ness Monsters or height limit conspiracies ... it is just silly. Can we move on to actual facts and real news. The city would welcome any well designed building that falls within the city plan and the map for building heights. Tall buildings are expensive to build and hard to put together. I really hate to see this forum become silly.

Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Posted: April 27th, 2016, 2:35 pm
by Munch'n
The project cost was too much for the partners not FSP's fault. Renderings come in the next few weeks, seems like it will take 6 months to complete. Not sure what you can do in 6 months. :(