TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
MS3

Re: TCF Tower

Postby MS3 » May 21st, 2014, 6:30 pm

This is what I was referring to in the rumors section... It's going to be tall

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Anondson
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Re: TCF Tower

Postby Anondson » May 21st, 2014, 7:05 pm

Any insight on what's to be done with the existing buildings on the block?

min-chi-cbus
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Re: TCF Tower

Postby min-chi-cbus » May 21st, 2014, 10:31 pm

The site of the redevelopment will be.....redeveloped, and the existing tower will remain and likely be refurbished.

Unity77
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Re: TCF Tower

Postby Unity77 » June 1st, 2014, 1:38 pm

Hines recently proposed a tower of similar size in downtown Denver.

600,000 sq. feet
38 stories
590ft.
Architect: Pickard Chilton

Image

mplsjaromir
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Re: TCF Tower

Postby mplsjaromir » June 1st, 2014, 2:16 pm

:D
Last edited by mplsjaromir on June 2nd, 2014, 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

John
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Re: TCF Tower

Postby John » June 1st, 2014, 2:23 pm

Pickard Chilton would probably be a good architect for the TCF site. My only caution about something tall here is it will need to have a good architectural relationship with the Foshay so as not to completely overwhelm it by scale. That would mean a very slender tower with the ability to attract an anchor tenant. Even more of a challenge in a city like ours with the luxury of so much vacant land downtown. Much easier to build squat high rises with large floor plates.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: TCF Tower

Postby min-chi-cbus » June 1st, 2014, 2:27 pm

Maybe it's just the perspective if that rendering but it appears that site is much larger than the one proposed at TCF

Unity77
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Re: TCF Tower

Postby Unity77 » June 1st, 2014, 3:45 pm

mplsjaromir wrote:Denver has a looooooong way to go surpass Minneapolis' skyline. I just spent the Memorial weekend there and stayed downtown. There really isn't building of note, it really a large grouping of bland Multi Foods type towers. Nothing there approaches the "big 3" in Minneapolis. Second the core is spread pretty wide, so the view can be pretty lackluster from certain angles. Third, like St. Paul they have lots of corporate signage near the crowns of the towers.

From its light rail system to the 16th Street Mall to its skyline, to its airport Denver is overrated in my opinion.
I shouldn't have posted that comment. The reason I deleted it had to do with not wanting to turn this into a Denver vs Minneapolis conversation.
John wrote:Pickard Chilton would probably be a good architect for the TCF site. My only caution about something tall here is it will need to have a good architectural relationship with the Foshay so as not to completely overwhelm it by scale. That would mean a very slender tower with the ability to attract an anchor tenant. Even more of a challenge in a city like ours with the luxury of so much vacant land downtown. Much easier to build squat high rises with large floor plates.
Exactly. Finding a tenant or multiple tenants who actually want to be in downtown Minneapolis over some suburban office park will be very challenging.

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Re: TCF Tower

Postby MNdible » June 1st, 2014, 4:38 pm

Unity77 wrote:Exactly. Finding a tenant or multiple tenants who actually want to be in downtown Minneapolis over some suburban office park will be very challenging.
Except that recent evidence contradicts this. There's been a steady stream of tenants moving from the suburbs into downtown Minneapolis, and very few moving the other direction. TCF themselves is an outlier in this regard.

The problem may be getting people willing to pay the higher rents that would be required to build a new tower -- many of the recent moves into downtown have been into less expensive office space. 510 Marquette is a prime example of this trend, and I suspect that we'll see a similar trend with the space that Wells Fargo will be vacating when they move to their new buildings.

My read is that most businesses are trying to balance two factors: on one hand, a demand to spend less on their corporate real estate; on the other, a desire to be located downtown to attract the best employees.

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Re: TCF Tower

Postby John » June 1st, 2014, 6:46 pm

MNdible wrote:The problem may be getting people willing to pay the higher rents that would be required to build a new tower -- many of the recent moves into downtown have been into less expensive office space. 510 Marquette is a prime example of this trend, and I suspect that we'll see a similar trend with the space that Wells Fargo will be vacating when they move to their new buildings.
Yes, the times are quite different than the boom of the 1980's and early 90's in office space downtown. Actually, having cheaper class B available for companies to expand or relocate is healthy for downtown too. But there will always be some demand for new Class A office space as long as the economy is growing and someone is making money. There is a trend of mid-size regional cities (like Denver) to see some office tower development. I think that will happen here but modestly. I don't see much more than TCF, and maybe something on The Ritz Block and the Hines project in the North Loop.

writruth
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Re: TCF Tower

Postby writruth » June 2nd, 2014, 12:48 am

With the recent sale of TGIF by the Carlson Companies, and the resulting influx of cash, I'm wondering if there are plans to use the capital to finally leave their suburban digs and build a new flagship tower in downtown Minneapolis.

Radisson is a quintessential Minnesota company built from the ground up by the legendary Curt Carlson. Just in the past two years, the company has made a renewed urban regional commitment by building a new Radisson Blue at Mall of America, upgrading it's downtown Minneapolis flagship hotel to a Blue and made a commitment to building a 30-story Red hotel on top of the parking structure adjacent to what will be the new Vikings stadium.

Come on Radisson, take the next step and build a sparkling new headquarters tower in the heart of our great metropolis.

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Re: TCF Tower

Postby writruth » June 2nd, 2014, 12:51 am

John wrote:
MNdible wrote:The problem may be getting people willing to pay the higher rents that would be required to build a new tower -- many of the recent moves into downtown have been into less expensive office space. 510 Marquette is a prime example of this trend, and I suspect that we'll see a similar trend with the space that Wells Fargo will be vacating when they move to their new buildings.
Yes, the times are quite different than the boom of the 1980's and early 90's in office space downtown. Actually, having cheaper class B available for companies to expand or relocate is healthy for downtown too. But there will always be some demand for new Class A office space as long as the economy is growing and someone is making money. There is a trend of mid-size regional cities (like Denver) to see some office tower development. I think that will happen here but modestly. I don't see much more than TCF, and maybe something on The Ritz Block and the Hines project in the North Loop.
Speaking of that proposed North Loop Hines project, is there any update on this seemingly stalled development? Last word I recall was Hine's decision to build their glass tower higher than they originally planned but that was months and months ago. The trail seems to have gone cold on this one.

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Re: TCF Tower

Postby bapster2006 » July 16th, 2014, 9:59 pm


grant1simons2
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Re: TCF Tower

Postby grant1simons2 » July 16th, 2014, 11:01 pm

Holy cow.... This architecture firm is international. They have some very magnificent buildings from China to Sweden. http://perkinswill.com/

MplsSteve
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby MplsSteve » July 17th, 2014, 6:43 am

I never noticed how much the TCF Bank looks like a giant size 1970's McDonalds.

mullen
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby mullen » July 17th, 2014, 6:58 am

perkins & will has had an office on nicollet mall for years. they've done a lot of work here.

John
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby John » July 17th, 2014, 7:04 am

mullen wrote:perkins & will has had an office on nicollet mall for years. they've done a lot of work here.
They are the architects for Mozaic 3. I think this is great news and bodes well for a great design at this site.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby min-chi-cbus » July 17th, 2014, 7:10 am

Alrighty, now let's see something!

Any guesses as to the final size/height of this thing? They keep throwing 600K-800K SF out there but something tells me that, had the market been as favorable as it was in the late 90's (for example), this thing could have easily been the next tallest building in the city. Since market conditions aren't quite that favorable (at least not for office), I don't see a giant office building here, and I'm not even sure how they'll fill up to 800K SF. Where it could potentially get interesting is if they decide to make this a mixed-use building that includes apartments/condos and/or hotel and retail space. In addition, and as previously mentioned, the existence of the Foshay Tower and preexisting TCF Tower portions of the block will make any future tower likely very slender to avoid obstructing views and encroaching on the City's monument building. Concentrating up to 800K SF in such a small site may push this proposal sky-high.

Just for fun I'll guesstimate that this project will be a mixed-use building that will include hotel and office space -- hotels on the first 20 floors, and up to 30 floors of office space, or 50 floors total -- and reach between 650 and 700 feet in height (office floors at ~15 ft/fl, and hotel floors at ~10 ft/fl). The floor plates would have to be fairly small (partly why I'm limiting the office proportion somewhat), so I'll guess 15,000 SF max but possibly 12,000 SF, making the entire building about 600,000 to 750,000 SF, assuming those specs. I'd actually lean more towards the small end of the spectrum, but will stick with 650,000 SF for now.

50 floors, 650,000 SF, and 680 feet tall.

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Nathan
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby Nathan » July 17th, 2014, 9:53 am

Radisson Red?

grant1simons2
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Re: TCF Bank Building Redevelopment

Postby grant1simons2 » July 17th, 2014, 10:44 am

I want to draft a tower as soon as they leak the height at SF of it. As someone who is going to be majoring in architecture I think it should be a fun self challenge.


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