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Loring Park Neighborhood

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 2:10 pm
by woofner
So, guys, what do you think of limiting all new development in the Loring Park "neighborhood" to 6 stories, except for a small swath of 1st Ave S:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 114098.pdf

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 2:31 pm
by tab
Looks like LPM would comply perfectly with this plan, give or take 30 stories.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 3:36 pm
by min-chi-cbus
Is this a joke? We have ONE legitimate residential high-rise district in the metro area and we now want that area to be limited to 10 floors or less for all future development? The Warehouse District and Mills District are already strictly mid-rise historical districts.....we really don't need yet another area just like it, especially one that already has a built form that strongly deviates from this goal (unlike the aforementioned other two districts).

I'm confused, and a bit nervous, but am hoping this is either a joke or a misguided ideal that won't get much more than a passing glance.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 3:39 pm
by FISHMANPET
tab wrote:Looks like LPM would comply perfectly with this plan, give or take 30 stories.
I can't help but imagine the "take" side of this with a super deep that goes down 25 floors underground.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 3:53 pm
by TroyGBiv
They've had this limitation marked out as within 1,000 ft of the lake in the park. I agree that this area is urban - it needs density to maintain higher levels of safety. I think height limits are not a good idea for this neighborhood. There is already about 10 high rises in this area and it should continue to build density. Pedestrianization is a major factor in a cities livability.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 4:32 pm
by John
It's too restrictive. I think there is room for a few more high rises in the neighborhood, especially on underutilized or vacant parcels on the northern and eastern periphery of the master plan area, in addition to a few spots around LPM such as the SA site and Maryland apartments (if it was torn down).

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 4:54 pm
by Silophant
Screw that. The time to limit height in Loring Park was before any towers went up, not now. As min-chi-cbus said,there's not that many areas within walking distance of downtown, and two of those already have artificial height caps. We don't need another one.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 5:39 pm
by Anondson
The Loring Park neighborhood gives Minneapolis NIMBYs their notoriety and of all the places deserving of density in the city, when Minneapolis comes out against a dense development in this neighborhood the suburbs that are being asked to urbanize point back at Minneapolis and go, "WTF?!"

When I lived in Loring Park in the 90s, anti-height activists claimed they were trying to protect their precious skyline views. I just wanted pound my head against a wall.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 7:09 pm
by twincitizen
Yet another reason to show up to the Planning Commission meeting on Monday!

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/meetings/p ... S1P-114080

Let's get a cohort of urbanists there and make our voices heard!

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 7:45 pm
by min-chi-cbus
If not here, where can towers be constructed outside of the CBD? The places where people actually WANT to live hundreds of feet in the sky so they can see something are along waterways or between them. Loring Park is ideal in many ways because it's directly between the CBD and Uptown, and has views on all sides with the downtown skyline, the Mississippi River, and the Chain of Lakes.

I'd be okay if restrictions were put into place that made it so no new towers could block more than say 50% of an existing building's views, or something else to ensure that anything new "fits in" to the neighborhood and doesn't detract from it or lower its value any. I could get behind that......as THAT would be much more constructive and "win-win" than what is being proposed.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 7:51 pm
by Nick
I really need to start going to the CLPC meetings. I'll be out of town next week but will submit some written comments. Beth Elliott's email was listed on a letter I (as a neighborhood resident) got a couple days ago.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 7:55 pm
by Anondson
I love how that map paints the entire convention center with the 10-story color. *facepalm*

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 8:01 pm
by FISHMANPET
There's got to be some kind of compromise between capping at 6-10 stories and soviet-bloc style are where we have identical 50 story buildings. I think that a few taller buildings among the shorter one looks pretty good. Maybe if there was the ability to transfer air rights? If I've got a lot I can build up to 10 stories but I only want to build 5, can I sell 5 stories to my next door neighbor so he can build 15 instead of 10? That's be really nice in a place like that, to prevent the area being overwhelmed (which I assume is part of the point) while still allowing that expensive luxury tall buildings that will be in demand.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 11th, 2013, 9:37 pm
by Minnekid
Off note, if I understand correctly, the setback on the Alatus tower is now moved to 5 feet, so that means it has to be only 5 feet from the next building? Not 15 as before?

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 12th, 2013, 11:15 am
by MNdible
I think it's fascinating that the urbanists on this board ignore all of the really strong work in the plan, dealing with nuts and bolts issues that meaningfully impact the urban environment, and instead obsess about the the advisory height recommendations that make up a very minor portion of the plan.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 12th, 2013, 11:29 am
by FISHMANPET
Reading the report more closely, they make allowances for "residential towers" which are buildings over 10 stories in certain areas. But I can't exactly figure out what areas those are.

And If everything else is perfect Mndible, that's no reason that the parts that aren't perfect can't be improved.

Is there a summary of what this SAP is proposing? The draft plan is 250 pages long and also a big hot mess of terrible disorganization, so I'd like something a bit more concise to look at.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 12th, 2013, 11:49 am
by woofner
MNdible wrote:I think it's fascinating that the urbanists on this board ignore all of the really strong work in the plan, dealing with nuts and bolts issues that meaningfully impact the urban environment, and instead obsess about the the advisory height recommendations that make up a very minor portion of the plan.
Maybe it's more noteworthy to urbanists that a plan would limit development to 6 stories in a neighborhood studded with high-rises with very few developable parcels than a plan that has been 5 years in the making and was developed by dozens of professional planners would deal with nuts and bolts issues that meaningfully impact the urban environment. How often do you comment on this board that something entirely lived up to your expectations? Check it out guys, the sky is blue! No really!

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 12th, 2013, 12:18 pm
by MNdible
I generally try to temper my responses to things, and note where I feel projects succeed and where they have shortcomings. I try to avoid relentlessly bashing a project because I don't like, for example, it's window arrangement.

Twincitizen is ready to go to the barracks over a minor piece of the plan. As was noted, the plan is first of all, merely advisory, and second, is accepting of taller towers, and third, it attempts to move towards the holy grail of form based zoning code that everybody here is always so hot and bothered about.

My feeling is that the plan by-and-large is on the mark, and while it may be a bit messy, it does a good job of responding to the very engaged and very diverse group of stakeholders who worked very hard pulling it together.

I think if any of you had attended the meetings, you'd have been very impressed by how savvy the neighborhood residents working on this plan really were, and you'd also have been surprised by how much the volunteers did (as opposed to the "dozens" of professionals). [I was only able to attend a couple of the meetings, and mostly just observed.]

This plan is, on the whole, really good work. But no, better to write it off the plan as the product of a bunch of height-hating NIMBY's.

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 12th, 2013, 12:25 pm
by twinkess
The only part of the plan that has been posted here is a one page PDF suggesting height limitations. Am I missing something?

Re: Loring Park Master Plan

Posted: September 12th, 2013, 12:34 pm
by MNdible
If you clicked through the committee link above, it has a link to the full plan.

Or you can find it here.