Minneapolis Skyway System

[TommyT]

They also sell the same (or dang close) thing at Costco.

[Lancestar2]

Perhaps a stupid question but I'm gonna ask it anyways...

Would HCMC benefit by being connected to the skyway network? I think it would be a neat feature for residents to have skyway access, however would HCMC benefit enough for them to seek a connection? I would think we would have to see the empty parking lot at 6th and Portland being developed before we see an opportunity unless the Vikings stadium will have a public skyway walkway inside the stadium? Either way I am curious as to what others here think.


Or is there any other existing building that may greatly benefit by being connected?

[Michael]

I'll play

I could see some benefit, yes, mostly for family/friends of patients who could easily get to food/lodging.

The new clinic might benefit more:

http://hcmcnews.org/tag/clinic/

As for existing buildings. I could guarantee that Whole Foods would see more wintertime business from me if they had a connection.

[Lancestar2]

I'll play

I could see some benefit, yes, mostly for family/friends of patients who could easily get to food/lodging.

The new clinic might benefit more:

http://hcmcnews.org/tag/clinic/

As for existing buildings. I could guarantee that Whole Foods would see more wintertime business from me if they had a connection.

Thanks for the link, had no idea they were planning an expansion. So much construction going on lately I wonder if us locals will still recognize this city in 2018 after the Super Bowl!

I do agree Whole Foods would be a great to have on the skyway. Although if everything goes as planned the Library will act as a wonderful endpoint to the skyway (connecting via the new Xcel, and Nic on fifth buildings) and exiting on the west side of the Library would make Whole foods only 1 block away! Still no "winter shorts" skyway access shopping but I think it still in the "winter light jacket and jeans" distance even in sub zero temps.

What are your thoughts on "1 block away" destinations that are not connected to the skyway but within 1 or 1.5 (under 2 blocks) Such as how Whole Foods will be, and the Guthrie Theater will have a skyway "stepping down" to street level where you cross at street level and would be able to enter the Guthrie via the parking ramp (or the North side during nice weather) Do you feel they are connected enough as a short 1 block trip is fine, or do you think during subzero temps it's to far of a walk in subzero temps and might consider other transit routes or visiting other places instead?

My thoughts are while I would perfer door to door skyway access anything within 1-2 blocks would probably be ok enough to still consider it "connected" provided there was a good street to skyway connection. Just wonder if other people think so too. Heck I know last winter when I had to walk 15min walk from the grocery store to home by the time I got home my lettuce was frozen and ruined So I can understand the desire for direct skyway access.

[Wedgeguy]

As far as skyway access into the Mill District, (Guthrie), it is prohibited because it is a historic district. Guthrie is allowed as it is none public and it is for moving sets from the design studio to the stages. It is an integral part of the building design. Similar to some of the connections in the NL between some of the warehouses that are still in use or the grain elevators in the past.

I too would like to see HCMC connected to the skyway system. But you will not have it connecting with any of the Vikings stadium.

Going with skyways east of 5th I feel is over kill. I would prefer that we have some great entry points on 5th so we can keep neighborhood retail at street level in Elliot Park. Also prefer to keep the skyways from going past 9th and 5th to the south and east.

[Michael]

Well... My office is at Union Plaza, which, while not skyway connected, is about 500' from a skyway connected building. So I'm expecting to actually find out first-hand this winter how annoying that will be

My suspicion is "not very"

I think for short distances, not having a Skyway connection isn't going to be the end of the world, so close proximity entry/exit points would be just fine. But as more residences get built I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out for certain businesses or venues. Will the residents of 1000 apartments shop more at a drug/convenience store that is on the Skyway even if it has less selection than one separated by 1 block of subzero open air? The business person in me would say yes.

[Lancestar2]

As far as skyway access into the Mill District, (Guthrie), it is prohibited because it is a historic district. Guthrie is allowed as it is none public and it is for moving sets from the design studio to the stages. It is an integral part of the building design. Similar to some of the connections in the NL between some of the warehouses that are still in use or the grain elevators in the past.

I too would like to see HCMC connected to the skyway system. But you will not have it connecting with any of the Vikings stadium.

Going with skyways east of 5th I feel is over kill. I would prefer that we have some great entry points on 5th so we can keep neighborhood retail at street level in Elliot Park. Also prefer to keep the skyways from going past 9th and 5th to the south and east.

What do you mean by over kill? Also you mean going east of 5th Ave. correct? In which way would you suggest we connect the HCMC to the Skyway network? I think downtown east has a lot of growth opportunity with a heavier focus on residential, and having parts of downtown east would better allow for a mixed usage skyway network. Granted downtown east may never be as connected (via skyway) as downtown west is however allowing residents access points to the skyway network ever 2-3 blocks would greatly enhance transportation options for downtown residents.

I will point out that the skyway expansion along Chicago Ave will have street to skyway access points at Washington Ave. and the "The Yard Park". Any type of Skyway expansion should continue to use such a model as the city itself identified street to skyway access points as an important feature that needed to be added. So perhaps a skyway between 7-8th Street connecting through HCMC would be a better spacing, provided it has street to skyway access points every block or at least every other block would be enough to connect downtown east considering a skyway between 3rd-4th Street will connect north downtown east.

Living downtown during the winter can be a pain for many residents but giving them the option to have a heated skyway 1-3 blocks away I would think would be enough to make residents feel connected enough to the skyway without having to build a skyway on ever street. Thoughts? I think it would be a great in between option to allow skyway options while limiting it's expansion, of course I am a skyway fanatic so that is why I seek out others opinions to understand what they think would be a realistic future system.

Well... My office is at Union Plaza, which, while not skyway connected, is about 500' from a skyway connected building. So I'm expecting to actually find out first-hand this winter how annoying that will be

My suspicion is "not very"

I think for short distances, not having a Skyway connection isn't going to be the end of the world, so close proximity entry/exit points would be just fine. But as more residences get built I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out for certain businesses or venues. Will the residents of 1000 apartments shop more at a drug/convenience store that is on the Skyway even if it has less selection than one separated by 1 block of subzero open air? The business person in me would say yes.

I think your right too, with the recent "no-name grocery store" requiring skyway access also suggest they think so too. I guess if the "central park" is not official, and all goes as planned with the Ritz block connecting the Library to the skyway network a skyway across 3rd to a developed block North of the Library would bring the skyway endpoint just kitty corner to Whole foods! Perhaps even if the "no-name grocery store" has to much of an advantage against Whole foods (provided they are in competing target markets) perhaps there may be demand by Whole foods to have direct skyway access? Would the building accommodate a skyways easily? Either way it seems very realistic to have a skyway access just kitty corner from Whole foods! WOW! While still not being direct access at least being able to see Whole foods from the skyway just across the street would be close enough for most skyway residents I think. Provided lettuce won't freeze in the 60 seconds it takes to cross the 2 intersections taking the skyway to Whole foods may become a reality for most skyway residents during winter!

[Wedgeguy]

First of all I did not say that HCMC should not be connected to the skyway system. I'm all for it getting into the system whether it is skyways or tunnel. My connection would be across Portland between the Portland tower and the Sexton going above the alley to the new HCMC Medical Clinic Building. I'm saying keep the skyways out of most of Elliot Park. Keep them west of 5th Ave and north of 8th St. I know that Kraus Anderson would want their block connected so let's just keep the skyways concentrated to dense area. How are we to have street level retail in the neighborhood if you have the population split between street and skyway. NOT every building has to be on the skyways.

[fehler]

HCMC wants to be connected on the skyway. I think the new stadium could be configured for a second skyway connection, south across 6th Street to a redeveloped Huberts or the medical examiner block. There's a couple of open blocks, and then whatever happens with Kraus Anderson or Sexton2, and then you are at Center Village. That's a nice loop, and a much more direct walking route between The People's Stadium and the downtown entertainment/shopping experience (and the Convention Center).

[Wedgeguy]

HCMC wants to be connected on the skyway. I think the new stadium could be configured for a second skyway connection, south across 6th Street to a redeveloped Huberts or the medical examiner block. There's a couple of open blocks, and then whatever happens with Kraus Anderson or Sexton2, and then you are at Center Village. That's a nice loop, and a much more direct walking route between The People's Stadium and the downtown entertainment/shopping experience (and the Convention Center).

I really don't think the Vikings want to have to deal with the security question of people walking thru part of the stadium when there is not an event. I have no idea where the Vikings skyway is considered private and where it will be considered part of the skyway system. Will there be any other entry points to this skyway other than the portal in the new MFSC parking ramp to the stadium connection itself. (Were they still doing the Roller Dome or had that faded and stopped before they tore down the Dome?)

I see the Center Village skyway as the connecting point for the HCMC. You have only the Sexton block to cross thru and you are then across Portland and in the new HCMC Medical Center. They can add another skyway across Park to the Main HCMC complex very easily. That connection could go across Park and connect into the RED buildings larger skyways level that is already laid out and used. Here you are only adding a block and a half of new skyway and you have a skyway entrance into the Elliot neighborhood. Again this is just my option. Lower cost and minimal security issues. Also does better to get the skyway entrance into the Elliot neighborhood.

[IllogicalJake]

I really don't think the Vikings want to have to deal with the security question of people walking thru part of the stadium when there is not an event.

I know you mentioned a lot of other things, but I wanted to ask about this - Target Center and Target Field both have skyway connections that remain open and active during non-gamedays. Stadiums always have things that remain open. So I'm not sure if a public skyway is really that much of an issue.

[xandrex]

I really don't think the Vikings want to have to deal with the security question of people walking thru part of the stadium when there is not an event. I have no idea where the Vikings skyway is considered private and where it will be considered part of the skyway system.

The Vikings certainly have some influence, but isn't the decision on whether to keep the skyway open to the stadium for the MSFA to decide?

And it's not like this is going to link directly to the concourse anyway, unless they plan on doing ticketing and such in the skyway or some adjoining room.

[Wedgeguy]

I really don't think the Vikings want to have to deal with the security question of people walking thru part of the stadium when there is not an event.

I know you mentioned a lot of other things, but I wanted to ask about this - Target Center and Target Field both have skyway connections that remain open and active during non-gamedays. Stadiums always have things that remain open. So I'm not sure if a public skyway is really that much of an issue.

You have to remember that the Target Center skyway is not does not end with Target Center, But is one of 2 ways to get to the ABC ramps and Target Field on the west side of 1st Ave. I'd be curious as to what the cost would be would be for both the Hospital to accommodate a skyway thru the Purple building and the skyway to the Purple building to the Stadium. If it cost a cool million to cross a street for the new Ambulatory Care skyway on the U. What will a few underdeveloped blocks cost for the amount of use it would get for most of the Year. I doubt the Viking will pay the cost of that skyway and there would be an uproar if the city or county had to foot the bill for it.

[Wedgeguy]

If the skyway is like the Target Field from the A ramp, then you enter the stadium and get screened and your ticket is scanned when you enter the stadium from the skyway. You are not forced to go down to ground level to get your screening and ticket scanned. I'm bet that the skyway would be locked at the MFSC parking ramp when there is nothing going on to constitute having the skyway open. Just like Target field to the A ramps skyway.

[MinnMonkey]

I see the Center Village skyway as the connecting point for the HCMC. You have only the Sexton block to cross thru and you are then across Portland and in the new HCMC Medical Center. They can add another skyway across Park to the Main HCMC complex very easily. That connection could go across Park and connect into the RED buildings larger skyways level that is already laid out and used. Here you are only adding a block and a half of new skyway and you have a skyway entrance into the Elliot neighborhood. Again this is just my option. Lower cost and minimal security issues. Also does better to get the skyway entrance into the Elliot neighborhood.

Centre Village does have a Skyway that extends all the way to 8th Street. It is currently blocked off and used for storage just past the condo entrance, but it is there just waiting to cross 8th into the Normandy hotel.

You can see it in this picture:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9733097 ... AJSAVA!2e0

[Wedgeguy]

As I said before I'd prefer, my opinion or wish, is that the skyways stay out of of Elliott Park. I can see a skyway in the future going to the Best Western site and possibly to Kraus Anderson as both of those would be more office or mixed use and not total residential. Last thing we need in a residential neighborhood is lifeless streets. Retail in the neighborhoods need to be on the street level not the skyway level. Both sites would be great gateways to the skyway system from street level to skyway level from Elliot Park. This would also allow for a skyway north to the future (hopefully mixed use) development on the empty Thrivent parking lot south of the Armory.

Not sure if they can go across at mid block over 5th Ave, with a skyway at Center Village or if the parking ramp structure of it would be in the way. In that case you would most likely have to wait until the South/east corner of 5th and 5th were to be developed and the skyway crossing closer to skyway lobby area on the north end of the building where you cross to Thrivent. From there you would run the skyway either over the alley between the Sexton and the new Shamrock tower or as part of the new Shamrock tower. Then you cross to the new Medical Center.

[fehler]

Maybe if there was a "Skyway 2040" plan for downtown, we would see the empty/small-scale development plans ripen into a larger office/commercial/residential developments. Plan to connect the destinations, aka the Convention Center and Vikings Stadium, and infill will happen. Isn't that what was said about LRT?

Imagine the excitement if the stadium plans included a dotted line labeled "future skyway connection" on the south or east ends.

[Wedgeguy]

It is one thing to have a skyway that has activity in it. It is another to be a walled gerbil tube with empty store fronts or worse long corridors without anyway into or out of.It is curious to see how much of the skyway system actually has retail or activities along them. Most hotels have turned their skyway space into meeting rooms. I know that is true of the Radisson Blu, the Hyatt, and the Hilton. There are section of the Baker block that have set empty now for years. The Westin Hotel with the Banks has retail that is sitting empty again for a number of years now. These have decent foot counts too. To expect that retail will survive on sparely used skyways is a theory I don't subscribe to. The build it and they will come theory has not shown to work very well here when there is not a dense foot traffic count going by every day to keep cash registers ringing.

[Lancestar2]

I see the Center Village skyway as the connecting point for the HCMC. You have only the Sexton block to cross thru and you are then across Portland and in the new HCMC Medical Center. They can add another skyway across Park to the Main HCMC complex very easily. That connection could go across Park and connect into the RED buildings larger skyways level that is already laid out and used. Here you are only adding a block and a half of new skyway and you have a skyway entrance into the Elliot neighborhood. Again this is just my option. Lower cost and minimal security issues. Also does better to get the skyway entrance into the Elliot neighborhood.

Centre Village does have a Skyway that extends all the way to 8th Street. It is currently blocked off and used for storage just past the condo entrance, but it is there just waiting to cross 8th into the Normandy hotel.

You can see it in this picture:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9733097 ... AJSAVA!2e0

I never noticed that before... Thanks for posting! Maybe after the Superbowl we may see some smaller hotels leaving the market through selling to developers? Does anybody have any insights onto how well designed or how this location is managed? Also with the HCMC expansion building 1 block south that would make only a two block gap through mostly parking lots so very likely we may see a connected HCMC!

Perhaps I am reading to much into it but... According to this.

http://minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/pub ... 125067.pdf

Kraus Anderson's 2nd floor plan on the back side of the building (mid-block side) it looks they decided to build one less office space where as on the 3rd and 4th floors they filled the whole floor. Perhaps that's where they plan to have a private connection to a skyway network in the future? If a skyway were to be a possibility in that block would they be interested? Do they have many clients headed towards there HQ's to have meetings or is it mostly employee's and staff who would have little usage for a skyway connection? Thoughts?

Any skyway to HCMC I would also agree would ideally be better built to connect to downtown instead of the Vikings Stadium, however I would think having such a direct access to HCMC should could be a convenience for the stadium though the low level of medical emergency may not make it practical.

[Wedgeguy]

Lancestar, I'd guess that the Normandy Inn site has been the most turned over plot of land here in DT MPLS since the beginning of the 80's. I believe the first developer to buy that site with their eyes on redeveloping it was Trammel Crow back in the early 80's to build a new headquarters tower for what was then IDS. It has been sold and sometimes upgraded several times in the last 30 years. I believe that the common areas were just redone in 2013 so I expect it will be around for awhile. (At least until after the Super Bowl). I'm sure the current owners will want to get as much $$$ of the improved value out of this site when selling. My prediction is 2020 before this site will be seriously looked at.

At present it is too far from the Core for real competitive offices unless they are specific to a particular corporation. But once Kraus Anderson builds next to them they are less on the fringe than the block is at present. With the Wells Fargo square footage I believe that the core,at least as far as rentable square footage average will shift somewhat east and off Marquette and towards 3rd. The 1.2 M Sq Ft will have a big affect on where the center of DT is in the future.