Minneapolis Skyway System

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Azel
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby Azel » March 25th, 2015, 4:13 pm

Totally agree we need a Skyway wayfinding system. Right now people not familiar are mainly left to ask for directions if they get lost. Maybe the DT Council should just make an app for that (or maybe they already do?). Does Apple's Siri know how to get from Point A to Point B in the skyway?

Lancestar2

Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby Lancestar2 » March 25th, 2015, 8:14 pm

Azel wrote:Totally agree we need a Skyway wayfinding system. Right now people not familiar are mainly left to ask for directions if they get lost. Maybe the DT Council should just make an app for that (or maybe they already do?). Does Apple's Siri know how to get from Point A to Point B in the skyway?
there is This but the map does not look to have been updated in a while and the "mobile version" is pretty much just a smaller map so... it would be nice to see something updated. Heck I would bet if somebody started writing some emails we could get some progress to happen on creating at least some very basic way finding additions in limited segments (provided the private building owners approve) considering how much buzz and excitement there is going to be for the 2018 super bowl. Perhaps they already are working on some improvements? Doubt it, but hey it could be happening right?

xandrex
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby xandrex » March 27th, 2015, 9:00 am

Azel wrote:Totally agree we need a Skyway wayfinding system. Right now people not familiar are mainly left to ask for directions if they get lost. Maybe the DT Council should just make an app for that (or maybe they already do?). Does Apple's Siri know how to get from Point A to Point B in the skyway?
I actually realized how necessary this might be the other day.

I was talking to one of my company's interns about a project he had to do, which required walking from one side of downtown to the other in the skyways. But he didn't know the system at all because his bus drops him off right at work (soooooo lucky). I struggled to think of a good way to describe the route he'd have to take despite it being nearly a straight shot. Saying, "Go through this building and this building and it's mostly straight except for one area where you sort of have to jaunt over for a block and then there'll be a sign that says this location and follow that" just doesn't cut it.

As much as I hate the idea of "subway lines," I kind of feel it would have been faster to say, "Follow red until you reach green. Take that four blocks and then once you see blue, you've reached your destination."

Lancestar2

Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby Lancestar2 » April 11th, 2015, 1:33 pm

I have been starting to talk a bit more about the residential element to the skyway system over on http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1798916 Yet, I will bring a bit of that conversation over here for those who may not be a member of that site.

I was curious as to how realistic the residential element of the skyway network was changing. So below is a list of the current Minneapolis skyway connected units (black) the recent/under construction units (blue) and the proposed and yet to be built (red)


OK, so here is what list I have gather right now.. (blue means they are new)

Marquette Place 240 Units
Symphony Place 250 Units
Centre Village 235 Units
The Churchill 360 Units
The Crossing 305 Units
Nic on Fifth 253 Units
4 Marq 262 Units
Soo Line 254 Units
Lasalle Apartments 121 Units
Latitude 45 45 Units
Downtown East Wells Fargo 400 Units
Ritz block (Phase 1 ONLY) 364 Units
The Eclipse 360 Units
Nicollet Hotel Block (Gateway) 300 Units

I'm sure I am missing a few but that means that 1,511 units were on the market but as of recent. 1214 units were recently added or are under construction to be added soon. While another 1024 proposed units are going to be added to the market soon.


so to sum up...

a few years ago we had about 1511 skyway connected residential units and in a few years we are expected to have 2238 additional units added to the skyway network. That sure seems like one heck of a growth rate even if we are talking about a 5-10 year period. Not to mention Phase 2 of the Ritz project but we would have at least 3,749 skyway connected residential units.

Perhaps that would mean that on average each units holds 1.5 people considering many are two bedroom units, though that might be a bit to high... so 1-1.5 people per unit would mean Downtown Minneapolis would have about 3,800-5,600 downtown residents skyway connected compared to a few years ago with (1,511units) of about 1,500-2,250 downtown residents

Which would support the argument that there IS a growing residential element to the skyway. I'm not sure how the growth would be able to keep pace after these proposed projects are all built. Perhaps downtown East will support for more expansion but at the same rate would be extremely impressive IMO.



Secondly, using Skyscrapercity's other tabs I was able to have a discussion of the +15 network in Calgary Canada. Which until recently was a disconnected system, yet the expanded they system and connected the segments and now holds the title as the largest indoor connected elevated transit system. Based on the information provided from the locals the +15 network only has about 900 existing +15 connected residential units, while current construction and proposed projects would only add an additional 250 units as the +15 network is strictly limited to the central business district, so any potential expanded residential units will have to come from mixed usage properties. Which suggest the +15 network won't have an substantial growth in having a residential element to there network.

Another observation I noticed (in watching the online Youtube +15 network tour) is the +15 network does not seem to have the same design organization that Minneapolis has as doors require PULLing action which can greatly limit the flow of traffic if there is congestion. I know Minneapolis recently did a study on the usage of the skyway (right before city center landed Sports Authority and Saks Off Fifth, due to the report findings stating the City Center had greater volume than the IDS) I think I will have to try to track these numbers down and see if I can find more information about Calgary's +15 usage numbers to compare. As I am jumping to the assumption that the usage of the +15 network is greatly smaller than our Skyway network. Not to mention that the +15 network is better designed and have tons of street to +15 access points via stairs that line the street and a well marked transition points. Making it easier for people to exit and enter the system, while in Minneapolis usage tends to require either you take the skyway or the street.

Beyond that I wanted to better compare what elements the +15 network has that could encourage more residential usage compared to our skyway network which has the following elements (blue are under construction/proposed)

Library
Church (Catholic Church)
K-12 School and Daycare
Target
Downtown Market
Retail (clothing, glasses, books, pharmacy)
Banks
Hair Salons
Fast casual dinning, sit down table service dinning, fast food, and convenience shops
University of St. Thomas
City Hall (DMV)
Entertainment (Performing arts, concert venues, sporting venues, trade show events)
Access to Park (Loring, The Commons Riverfront (kinda direct))
Gyms
Liquor store and bars

I have yet to specifically identify which features the Calgary's +15 network has yet, I have a inkling they are very limited and don't have the same culture built we have as our skyway system is transiting towards being more residential. My purpose of this post has been to break the concept that well if other skyway like systems don't have an residential element they why would Minneapolis develop one? As explained above Calgary is a very different city while bigger and holds a much larger network they don't have the residential connected units to encourage residential elements to the network. I do think I want to also compare residential unit numbers to St. Paul as they may also have a respectable amount but I wonder if they have nearly as much as Minneapolis does to encourage more residential usage, which I highly doubt.

The proposed Armory redevelopment may connect into the skyway system bringing in the HCMC and there skyway connecting different buildings and parking lots into the system. Additionally the Post Office suggestion of being redeveloped into some type of market, if a skyway connection ever makes it into the project that would result in a skyway connected post office and market being added, plus it would make a direct skyway connection to the riverfront. Not to forget Whole Foods which will be just one street crossing away, yet considering it won't be directly connected I didn't list it above. There is a lot of existing, and potential additions that help encourage further development of a residential element to the skyway system that is unlike other networks.

I will have to keep looking into this in my free time but, as of yet I think Minneapolis is the only city that has such features that would encourage further residential development, and has been rapidly expanding it's connected units. If the city continues to expand it's downtown west and east residential units with developers opting into the system imagine the potential! Perhaps in 10 years there will be 10,000-20,000 skyway connected residents! Maybe more skyway connected schools, churches, and daycares will help further encourage residential usage. Either way, I have yet to find any other indoor network as supportive as residential usage as the Minneapolis Skyway network. I think it's truly unique and one of a kind. Thoughts?

Silophant
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby Silophant » April 11th, 2015, 3:41 pm

I haven't really digested the discussion yet, but as far of your list of skyway connected units goes, you're missing the Metro Apartments (112 units) and 6 Quebec (Idk how many units, probably just a couple dozen?). Also, you have Latitude 45 listed as 45 units. It'll have 319.

grrdanko
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby grrdanko » April 11th, 2015, 4:01 pm

Lancestar2 wrote: The proposed Armory redevelopment may connect into the skyway system bringing in the HCMC and there skyway connecting different buildings and parking lots into the system. Additionally the Post Office suggestion of being redeveloped into some type of market, if a skyway connection ever makes it into the project that would result in a skyway connected post office and market being added, plus it would make a direct skyway connection to the riverfront. Not to forget Whole Foods which will be just one street crossing away, yet considering it won't be directly connected I didn't list it above. There is a lot of existing, and potential additions that help encourage further development of a residential element to the skyway system that is unlike other networks.

We have 3 Skyway connected post offices: Baker Building, Grain Exchange Building and Butler Square

Lancestar2

Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby Lancestar2 » April 11th, 2015, 4:11 pm

Shoot I can't edit the post anymore...
Six Quebec Condos 21 Units
The Metro 112 Units
Marquette Place 240 Units
Symphony Place 250 Units
Centre Village 235 Units
The Churchill 360 Units
The Crossing 305 Units
Nic on Fifth 253 Units
4 Marq 262 Units
Soo Line 254 Units
Lasalle Apartments 121 Units
Latitude 45 319 Units
Downtown East Wells Fargo 400 Units
Ritz block (Phase 1 ONLY) 364 Units
The Eclipse 360 Units
Nicollet Hotel Block (Gateway) 300 Units

Making it a total of 4,156 skyway connected units so 1-1.5 people per unit would mean 4,156 - 6,234 downtown skyway connected residents within a few years. Thanks for the corrections!

contrast
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby contrast » April 12th, 2015, 9:55 pm

I thought 4 Marq will not be skyway connected?

trigonalmayhem

Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby trigonalmayhem » April 13th, 2015, 6:49 pm

I don't think the Wells Fargo apartments will either... Is there even space or an opening anywhere for passage to the skyway level on that side? I just figured they'd all open to the street and that was it?

grrdanko
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby grrdanko » April 13th, 2015, 6:54 pm

If they don't connect the Wells Fargo buildings apartments to the skyway that's a huge missed opportunity. Where did you hear that they won't?

Silophant
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby Silophant » April 13th, 2015, 9:59 pm

IIRC, there's door-sized openings in the blank concrete wall on the 4th St. side, so those buildings will be skyway-connected. I'm not sure about the 3rd St. side, though. I would think that the hotel, at least, would very much want a skyway connection, but it would also make things inconvenient for WF, unless the passage was along one side of the building.

matt91486
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby matt91486 » April 13th, 2015, 10:56 pm

And if I read the 4marq plans they submitted to the city correctly, they are eventually planning on a skyway, so that will ultimately tie in as well.

I know some people don't love it, but I'm personally of the opinion that as long as we have it, we might as well make it as cohesive and efficient as possible.

Lancestar2

Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby Lancestar2 » April 14th, 2015, 3:46 am

Updated List. (Green are the ones Under construction or proposed)

ix Quebec Condos 21 Units
The Metro 112 Units
Marquette Place 240 Units
Symphony Place 250 Units
Centre Village 235 Units
The Churchill 360 Units
The Crossing 305 Units
Nic on Fifth 253 Units
Soo Line 254 Units
Lasalle Apartments 121 Units
Latitude 45 319 Units
Downtown East Wells Fargo 400 Units
Ritz block (Phase 1 ONLY) 364 Units
The Eclipse 360 Units
Nicollet Hotel Block (Gateway) 300 Units


As far as I know Marq 4 is NOT planning on being connected into the network as the 2nd level was all parking spaces and a skyway connection would decrease that parking. It could be possible they may want to connect into the system once they see the value of the skyway segment connecting from Nic on fifth all the way to The Eclipse. Also I just assumed the Wells Fargo units will be tied into the network considering it's all new construction and is on the same block. The Thrasher Square won't be connected, but would have connected through the parking ramp if I remember correctly.


So if my math is correct as of right now we have 2,151 skyway connected residential units! Kinda neat knowing that number, I wonder how many are in St. Paul, or Rochester, or even Des Moins. Hmm... perhaps another week where I am procrastinating doing my homework haha.


Also according to the Star Tribune as seen HERE
Meanwhile, a vision is emerging that includes a skyway loop from the central business district through the stadium, a residential and pedestrian-friendly connection from the future Commons park to Elliot Park. Along this Portland residential corridor, developers imagine a mix of low-income, workforce, family and luxury housing, as well as shops, restaurants, dry cleaners and other *services.
I don't want to jump on board just yet as it may be very speculative still, but we might be seeing that skyway residential unit count continue to expand :) Just look how smooth downtown West came together recently. It's not completely impossible to see it happen again in downtown East. I personally think it all depends on of the Armory owners can get the funding they need for the proposed re-model, yet I hope we here more about this concept in the coming weeks!

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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby twincitizen » October 13th, 2015, 7:55 am

Serve on the Skyway Advisory Committee: http://www.minneapolismn.gov/boards/ope ... S1P-148916

The City of Minneapolis and the Minneapolis Downtown Council would like to announce an open application process to join the Skyway Advisory Committee. The City of Minneapolis’ Skyway Policy calls for an advisory committee to advise the City Council on all matters related to skyways and funding of skyways. The current City Council resolution re-establishing the Committee can be read here.

The Skyway Advisory Committee is a group of 17 regular voting members, along with four ex-officio non-voting members representing the City of Minneapolis. The Committee meets as needed to review plans for the renovation and expansion of the Minneapolis skyway system. They also provide guidance for groups and individuals wishing to hold events in the skyway system. Each member serves a two year term before re-applying.

The Downtown Skyway Advisory Committee was created to serve as an advisory board to the City Council on all skyway matters.

Vacancies:
There are currently seventeen vacancies. The terms are to start January 1, 2016 and expire December 31, 2017. All candidates will be appointed by the City Council. Application review process will begin Friday, October 23, 2015.

Requirements:
Regular members shall be owners or occupants of a property connected to a Mpls skyway; as being part of the overall skyway system.

mattaudio
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby mattaudio » October 13th, 2015, 8:45 am

Doesn't it seem strange that the Advisory Committee for skyways....
1) Includes "renovation and expansion of" skyways but not their removal (I don't even think it's official Mpls or Downtown Council policy to expand them, even though it's happening).
2) Requires members to be owners or occupants of a skyway-connected property (Own a classic office block with sidewalk retail? You have no say in skyway policy!)

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Nathan
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby Nathan » October 13th, 2015, 9:30 am

mattaudio wrote:Doesn't it seem strange that the Advisory Committee for skyways....
1) Includes "renovation and expansion of" skyways but not their removal (I don't even think it's official Mpls or Downtown Council policy to expand them, even though it's happening).
2) Requires members to be owners or occupants of a skyway-connected property (Own a classic office block with sidewalk retail? You have no say in skyway policy!)
no. Their function is way more important than form. I agree that we need to better connect them to the urban fabric... but they're too important.

The they serve a purpose for our city, and there are plenty of other advisory boards, I do think that there should be a provision for potential sky way connected buildings to be on it though, that the committee shouldn't be completely based on existing connections. Our what about people who work in a skyway connected building but don't own one. They probably use them more than building owners.

And in regards to having a say in skyway policy... it's mostly a private system right? If you privately own a building that isn't in the private sector that has skyways why would you have any say?

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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby Wedgeguy » October 13th, 2015, 9:34 am

There should probably be a few opening for those that are not owners, but in the case of users have at least a voice in what they would like to see improved. They may not get voting power, but they would sure add some ideas that most building owners and the city would be blind to thinking about.

Silophant
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby Silophant » October 13th, 2015, 9:42 am

I guess I'll shoot an email to them to confirm, but I'm assuming "occupants of skyway connected properties" includes people who work at such properties, not just live in them.

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Nathan
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby Nathan » October 13th, 2015, 9:51 am

Silophant wrote:I guess I'll shoot an email to them to confirm, but I'm assuming "occupants of skyway connected properties" includes people who work at such properties, not just live in them.
I read occupants to mean companies like target... the people leasing space in the buildings. Who have a financial stake, but I hope it could be workers.

mamundsen
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Re: Minneapolis Skyway System

Postby mamundsen » October 19th, 2015, 3:49 pm

There are new skyway way finding signs in the Hampton Inn and Suites. It had me do a double take because it said the Orpheum Theater was the same direction at Ramps A, B, C. It wanted me to go through the Hawthorne ramp to get there. There was an updated map too. I'll snap a picture tomorrow.


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