Minneapolis Skyway System

[mplser]

Maybe have a requirement banning all retail in the skyway level of new construction. Would probably be hard to pull off from a legal standpoint though.

I think that could work if they made the skyway as a walkway through a 2-storey open lobby with back entrances to storefront retail slots that you can see from the skyways, but you would still have to go downstairs to get to them.

[Lancestar2]

Since there's a thread for discussion about our skyway system. Let me ask this very talented, knowledgeable & imaginative membership of urbanmsp a question. If you had an opportunity to have a 15-minute meeting with a developer who was planning a tower(s) in the downtown core of Minneapolis. What would your ideas & techniques be to create better pedestrian traffic flow from the skyway to street level and vice versa? There is no right or wrong answer here, just curious on what this memberships ideas are to accomplish that objective. Thank you in advance, looking forward to your ideas.

The most important things, IMO:

1. It needs to be highly visible and intuitive how to access/move from the street to the skyway and vice versa. This could be accomplished via stairways directly from the street to the skyway.
2. When navigating the skyway level it should always be obvious how you're oriented relative to the street grid.
3. There needs to be accessible street level retail in addition to any skyway retail. You should be able to transition between the two seamlessly. A good example of this is Gaviidae Common that allows access to the street level stores both from the street and skyway.
4. There needs to be appropriate street signage to indicate where any skyway level retail is located.
5. There needs to be a mix of retail that will service more than just the business crowd during lunch and on the commute home.

I think you said it perfectly! Also I do agree! it would be wonderful if at each stairs down there was a map informing you of the retail and points of interest on the street level! Also I would build upon your idea that the skywalks should be re-branded as "transit lines" for example one segment would have all dark blue carpet and in the lobbies it would have a dark blue line in the lobbies of buildings. Better maps that allowed for updated information (Like mall directories that can be easily changed as the retail changes) Also I just LOVE the skyway entrance outside of the Graves 601 hotel with the heading SKYWAY. I think every building with access to the skyway should at least have a Skyway access Decal on the doors or a sign saying so. Also under the decal could be information as to what retail is in the skyway however I think what might be even better is 2nd floor logo's and signs on the skyways or buildings (although that may become sign pollution) A few more stairs and elevators in locations where there may not be easy access to switch may be helpful (and expensive) however I would think a few well placed staircases with elevators may further encourage people to cross between them a bit more.

Mainly reorganizing the skyway system to be a universal design such as rebranded into "transit lines" or "roads" that are color coded I think would help people understand the skyway system and be able to know where they are. It so confusing I still don't understand the entire system but I think if you are able to understand the system as a road you will be able to use more brain space to explore without getting lost. I personally don't like to explore unless I have a good chunck of time to spend trying to find my way back

[Wedgeguy]

That is calling going back to the street to find your way back.. I've had the skyway system in my brain for 25 years now and I still run into where the f*** am I now now and then. I prefer the street to the skwway when the weather is nice.

[martykoessel]

What if wherever there is now a map of the skyway system, there was also a kiosk that would allow poor lost souls to punch in a destination business, building or intersection, which would then bring up a map with a line showing how to get there?

I wonder how much something like this would cost and whether businesses on the skyway would care to join in funding it? Lastly, how do we take ideas from this site and get them to sources that might have some interest in them? Tossing ideas and opinions around among ourselves is a useless (though somewhat entertaining) exercise unless there's a system to filter and responsibly forward the most constructive and feasible proposals put forward here.

I'm new to this site, and I'm wondering if this has been discussed. Do any of you have the appropriate connections?

[Lancestar2]

What if wherever there is now a map of the skyway system, there was also a kiosk that would allow poor lost souls to punch in a destination business, building or intersection, which would then bring up a map with a line showing how to get there?

I wonder how much something like this would cost and whether businesses on the skyway would care to join in funding it? Lastly, how do we take ideas from this site and get them to sources that might have some interest in them? Tossing ideas and opinions around among ourselves is a useless (though somewhat entertaining) exercise unless there's a system to filter and responsibly forward the most constructive and feasible proposals put forward here.

I'm new to this site, and I'm wondering if this has been discussed. Do any of you have the appropriate connections?

I do like that idea but I think that sounds better if used as an app instead of a kiosk because you can't take the map with you and you wouldn't remember every turn. I do think a few interactive touch screen maps would be nice but personally I think the funds would be better spend updating the current signs (for example the to the convension signs should be wall mounted so people don't run into them and then they start pointing the wrong way )

As to getting ideas and opinions to the "deciders" in government I think that is still done the old fashioned way of attending a public forum and giving your input (kinda like the show Parks and Rec. I would imagine) Although I do know some people in local government watch this site and even post here from time to time, if they like your idea they may suggest it at a meeting or something or another member may attend a public meeting and suggest it.

But I would strongly recommend a disclaimer to inform people posting your post your posts are for recreation use only as most of us are just people who just love gossiping and talking about building projects and development. Such a project as redesigning the skyway into a design that is easier to navigate may be near impossible given that so many buildings, owners, and other people would have to agree and fund a project. In theory it could work.

[PhilmerPhil]

What if wherever there is now a map of the skyway system, there was also a kiosk that would allow poor lost souls to punch in a destination business, building or intersection, which would then bring up a map with a line showing how to get there?

I wonder how much something like this would cost and whether businesses on the skyway would care to join in funding it? Lastly, how do we take ideas from this site and get them to sources that might have some interest in them? Tossing ideas and opinions around among ourselves is a useless (though somewhat entertaining) exercise unless there's a system to filter and responsibly forward the most constructive and feasible proposals put forward here.

I'm new to this site, and I'm wondering if this has been discussed. Do any of you have the appropriate connections?

I think a Skyway App would be a much more efficient way of doing something like this.

[seanrichardryan]

The downtown council would definately fund that. Call em.

[Nick]

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/minneapo ... ?mt=8&ls=1

[mulad]

Google Maps has a special extra layer that appears when you visit the Mall of America. They should do something similar with the skyways. I'm not sure how many places they have in their indoor mapping system yet, though -- the MoA is probably the only place in the state right now.

[MSPtoMKE]

I was thinking of the same thing about google maps. Right now indoor maps are only on the android system, and since apple is ditching google maps soon, they certainly won't be supporting that feature. It is a pretty new feature, it isn't available for many buildings yet. So far in Minnesota I have found the Mall of America, Ikea, MSP airport, and... Home Depot Stores. But mostly just airports and a few malls so far. I think they will accept maps submitted by businesses, and I think there is an app that you can develop the maps with. I am not sure who would be in charge of mapping the skyway system, since it is made up ad so many private owners, but this would be an ideal use of the feature.

[mplser]

did you say indoor maps are available on android? does that mean skyway maps? how do I get that?

[mulad]

It's just a feature of the regular Google Maps app. I think you have to be physically at the location for it to work, though.

I haven't really followed the ins and outs of what's going on with the next version of iOS. It was kind of sounding to me like Apple may loosen the rules to allow more 3rd-party mapping software, but it's not clear.

[martykoessel]

Acting on seanrichardryan's suggestion, I just sent the following e-mail to the Downtown Council:

"Good afternoon!

A group of interested folks was discussing the neverending issue of navigating the skyway system, which can be a challenge even for people familiar with downtown.

An objective was to come up with solutions that wouldn't entail high costs. Here's what came up:

--What if wherever there is now a map of the skyway system, there was also a kiosk that would allow poor lost souls to punch in a destination business, building or intersection, which would then bring up a map with a line showing how to get there?

--Creating an application to do the same thing. This would avoid the cost of the kiosks and allow system users to carry the map along. However, it wouldn't be available to users without access to apps or who are uncomfortable using them.

Has the Council given thought to this relatively simple way to make the skyways less intimidating and confusing? Would the Council and businesses on the skyway find it productive to join in funding these projects?

I look forward to your response."

I'll be interested to see if someone there gets back to us and in whether there's any potential for this sort of exchange to lead to something concrete.

[min-chi-cbus]

Cool ideas, and thanks for sending that in!

However....by making it easier to use the skyways we would (inadvertantly?) be taking more people OFF the streets -- something that the city of Minneapolis is trying NOT to do!

[martykoessel]

Hmm, that's a good thought, min-chi-bus. Can the city get people back on the streets if it makes both the skyways and the streets better, or would that be it be best to put all the energy just into improving streetscapes on the what's good for the skyways is bad for streetlife principle?

[mplser]

I'm pretty sure the only way to improve the skyway experience as well as the street experience at the same time is at the connections. I have definitely said this before, though.

[mulad]

It's been said in the past, but I'll go ahead and say it again -- Ideally, the skyway system can rougly double the amount of leasable frontage in the downtown core. It actually would have been really amazing if downtown was suffering from a shortage of good retail space and the skyways had come in to alleviate that problem by stacking more shops on top of each other, lowering rents for individual tenants but increasing the overall economic activity of the area. But that's not the way things went. The skyways were much more a reaction to what was happening with suburban flight, trying to rise above the unruliness of the city and create something cleaner and more uniform.

So I guess one question I have is, are there are any particular hot spots in the skyway or on the street where the market is tight right now and would benefit from vertical expansion? I'd rather start at a hot spot and try to get a feedback cycle started in order to activate surrounding areas, but I don't know how possible that is.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVoTzON8WMs[/youtube]

[iampatrick]

I wish google maps was in the skyway...

[Wedgeguy]

Remember most times it is faster and less back tracking to just hit the streets to get where you want to go. With the weather we've just had I'd be in the skyway too. But I'm a person that perfers the street so I get the fresh air and the limited sunshine!!

[mullen]

skyway tower