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Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 12th, 2019, 1:56 pm
by grant1simons2
Would be in line with this vision about 10 years ago
Twinstown.JPG

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 12th, 2019, 2:00 pm
by MNdible
Speaking of that rendering, does anybody have any idea what the deal is with Target Field's player/VIP parking area southwest of the ballpark (to the right of that image)? My recollection was that the team had rights (and maybe on obligation) to develop that land. Does that ring a bell with anybody?

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 12th, 2019, 2:17 pm
by mattaudio
Is it just me, or do others think that someday we might regret building on top of the rest of the rail trench without any provision for more passenger rail platforms?

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 12th, 2019, 2:46 pm
by kellonathan
I still remember the plan for the "Phase 2" of the Interchange, calling for a new passenger terminal above the Northstar tracks.....

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 12th, 2019, 2:58 pm
by mattaudio
Though since we're getting into the realm of fantasy, I don't think this will be a huge deal long term if we...
- Build a double-level tunnel under 5th or 6th St where Blue+Green LRT is on L1 and a pair of heavy rail tracks are on L2.
- Connect heavy rail on a new alignment from the NP#9 bridge and Dinkytown Trench on the east and a new railroad cut in place of the 3rd/4th St viaducts on the west end, connecting to the old NP tracks that reach Plymouth then across the NP-BNSF bridge north of Broadway, creating a new passenger mainline that allows existing and future trains such as Empire Builder and NLX to through-route downtown Minneapolis towards St Paul and beyond.
- Redevelop the garbage burner with below-grade stub tracks and platforms as needed.

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 12th, 2019, 3:18 pm
by SurlyLHT
I would love to see that viaduct go. It wastes a huge chunk of land between 10th and Plymouth for the ramps.

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 12th, 2019, 4:31 pm
by Anondson
Twinstown is my favorite “what ever happened to”.

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 12th, 2019, 4:42 pm
by Silophant
Anondson wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 1:37 pm
Oh geez. Stirring up trouble!

(What’s zoned heights here set at?)
It's currently zoned B4S-2, which specifies no maximum height, a minimum FAR of 2.0, and a maximum FAR of 8.0.

The 2040 plan calls it out as Transit 30 - building heights should be 10-30 stories, or taller if it furthers Comp Plan goals (which, it's hard to see how maximizing density adjacent to the commuter rail station wouldn't do that).

But (of course there's a but)...

The lot is part of the Rail Yards subarea of the warehouse historic district. There's not much for specific guidelines in the Rail Yards, since there were never buildings there, but the document does have this to say about height:
Requirement:  4.18. The height of new buildings shall not exceed 20 stories.
Other Considerations: 4.19. Additional height will be considered if evidence is provided that shows the additional  height is compatible with adjacent historic resources and the other contexts of the district. 
I think it would be a winnable fight, but it would be a fight regardless.

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 13th, 2019, 9:48 am
by spearson
They were out there again this morning, opposite side of the parking lot (I think a 405 parcel).

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 13th, 2019, 12:57 pm
by SurlyLHT
I picture them building something comparable to the surrounding structures. Would this be accessed in a similar fashion as T3?

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:08 pm
by BigIdeasGuy
I love the idea that Hines is thinking about developing those parcels shouldn't the city/county make a massive push to tear down those god awful viaducts first? I feel like there is a possibility if those the lots are developed before the viaducts come down we could be stuck with them for damn near ever.

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:19 pm
by Anondson
4th still would need to cross the freight and commuter rail. We don’t want that crossing at grade.

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 13th, 2019, 2:24 pm
by MNdible
Even if the main sections of the viaduct were torn down through the North Loop, I'm thinking that there would still need to be some sort of a viaduct between 5th Ave N and 2nd Ave N. See the 5th Street Viaduct for reasons why.

Edit, what he said.

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 13th, 2019, 3:14 pm
by Didier
What’s the general end game behind the viaduct removal dream? Just move the freeway entrances farther out? Or is the idea that we get rid of them altogether?

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 13th, 2019, 10:21 pm
by mister.shoes
Get rid of the viaducts altogether and have the freeway ramps connect to Plymouth Ave where it crosses 94. Something like this concept from six years ago:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9lysoy59pvsrj ... 1.jpg?dl=0

FWIW, I keep meaning to come back to it and make some improvements. Mainly, I’d move the 394 ramps from Washington to 3rd to open some more land for development. OTOH, neither T3 nor the Dock Street Flats were a thing when I made this. Oops.

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 14th, 2019, 10:08 am
by twincitizen
My thought is keep it as simple and cheap as possible. Tear down the viaducts (and the access ramps to 94), don't make any new freeway connections, and let freeway traffic disperse as it may. If there is a problem area that develops, address it later.

On the south end, I'm not sure why everyone thinks 4th St (North Loop) needs to be be connected to 4th St (Downtown) with a new "local" bridge. That connection for cars doesn't exist today, so there's no compelling reason we need it in a viaduct-less future. And I say this as a fanatical adherent to the religion of "grid repair". I just imagine it would be more expensive than it would be worth. Put in a new bike/ped bridge at 4th St (to replace the one attached to the viaduct) and call it good.

On the north end, it would make sense to extend 4th St from 10th Ave N up to Plymouth Ave. That would help establish the grid (for future development) in that massive area of ROW currently taken up by the I-94 access ramps on the north end of the viaducts.

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 14th, 2019, 10:45 am
by CalMcKenney
New to this viaduct removal conversation, but what do you guys think the realistic probability is of this happening? I've always dreamt of getting rid of that thing and letting the area develop.

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 15th, 2019, 11:22 am
by Blaisdell Greenway
There was a twitter exchange a few months ago where the city revealed they are pursuing removal with MNDOT. The state has most/all the power on this decision, right? https://twitter.com/worthington6121/sta ... 2946419712

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 16th, 2019, 3:29 am
by Qhaberl
That’s awsome! Good that the city is thinking forward. Not holding my breath on MNDOT though.


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Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 17th, 2019, 8:29 am
by SurlyLHT
I would love to see a Cost-Benefit on removing the viaduct. Some people would be upset, they love to charge onto there whipping through the intersection. I take the bike path adjacent at times and there is plenty of engine revving.