The Eclipse

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
seanrichardryan
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Re: The Eclipse

Postby seanrichardryan » March 10th, 2014, 1:26 pm

It does have an opportunity to be 'district parking.' Why he poo-pooed that lord only knows. Just lease the additional spaces instead of selling them.
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FISHMANPET
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Re: The Eclipse

Postby FISHMANPET » March 10th, 2014, 1:32 pm

I understand what he's saying about selling spaces in other projects.

But on the other hand, it sounds like a crappy position for an urban building to be in. People bought units with only 1 parking space, and they can't sell without a second one.

It probably would just be best to lease everything per month, rather than give people permanent access. That way if demand in the building rises you can just sell fewer spaces as District parking.

exiled_antipodean
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Re: The Eclipse

Postby exiled_antipodean » March 10th, 2014, 9:48 pm

Maximum parking regulations are well-intentioned, but then so were minimum parking regulations.

It would be a great thing if the parking was able to be converted to other uses at some point. But even it wasn't, what can be converted is the ownership structure of the spaces relative to the units, and the access rights to the general public.

Stanton may say now "oh, all the parking spaces go with the units," but if he finds out he's built too many he has a pretty strong financial incentive to offload the extra parking onto the market for paid parking in some other way.

Parking spaces are fungible.

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Re: The Eclipse

Postby twincitizen » March 11th, 2014, 6:39 am

Not entirely. The parking has to be designed in such a way to make that conversion to public spaces possible. Condo owners are (rightfully) going to want their parking secured from retail/public users and I believe most new mixed-use projects are designed as such. (222, etc.)

I'm on board the FISHMANPET/mattaudio train of thought that
A. The variance for the increase isn't really that much
B. If it doesn't impact the public realm (i.e. underground) then who cares

But still,
C. Stanton's out-of-touch-with-reality position just needs to be addressed/refuted. He needs to understand why the Planning Commission thinks it's a big deal, and I don't think he does. It's pretty clear from his comments that he does not.

Archiapolis
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Re: The Eclipse

Postby Archiapolis » March 11th, 2014, 7:17 am

twincitizen wrote:Not entirely. The parking has to be designed in such a way to make that conversion to public spaces possible. Condo owners are (rightfully) going to want their parking secured from retail/public users and I believe most new mixed-use projects are designed as such. (222, etc.)

I'm on board the FISHMANPET/mattaudio train of thought that
A. The variance for the increase isn't really that much
B. If it doesn't impact the public realm (i.e. underground) then who cares

But still,
C. Stanton's out-of-touch-with-reality position just needs to be addressed/refuted. He needs to understand why the Planning Commission thinks it's a big deal, and I don't think he does. It's pretty clear from his comments that he does not.
Secure separations between "unit" stalls and "public" stalls is an important issue to leasing/sales. Parking stalls are not as "fungible" as you might think. The only way that it is possible to "convert" would be to construct an overhead door at an existing wall with secure access OR, build a wall at some point along the structure and install the door - it doesn't work to have scattered stalls be converted to other uses. So, as markets fluctuate, you would be demoing/rebuilding this wall to suit the security needs. Not a huge cost relative to the overall cost of a project but it is not a case of just marking a stall with paint.

As far as converting to other uses, I've already addressed that prospect. It is VERY difficult/expensive to convert parking to other uses and not really feasible unless it is designed/structured in advance for conversion which means that it has to be PAID for ahead of time as well.

nickmgray
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Re: The Eclipse

Postby nickmgray » March 11th, 2014, 10:58 am

I know why the city wants parking stall limitations on projects, but it's funny how they would have no issue with the spaces if they were intended for public use - something which would actually encourage more cars downtown than if they were used by owners of the building.

A public parking space is typically used once a day by someone who does not live downtown. They come into the city and then have to leave. If a resident of the building who lives downtown uses that same space, they will only leave the building with that car 2-3 times per week. I know people who live downtown that only use their car once a week. Somehow the limitation seems backwards to me.

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Re: The Eclipse

Postby go4guy » March 11th, 2014, 11:19 am

Look at it the other way. Downtown is not going to be successful with just people who live downtown. I live in the suburbs and love going downtown to eat and go out. If I know parking is going to be a huge hassle, I may just deside to go to West End instead. But if there is parking close to where I want to go, i am more likely to spend my time and money downtown. Now, this area has plenty of parking, but that may not be the case in 5-10 years.

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Re: The Eclipse

Postby FISHMANPET » March 11th, 2014, 11:30 am

go4guy wrote:Look at it the other way. Downtown is not going to be successful with just people who live downtown. I live in the suburbs and love going downtown to eat and go out. If I know parking is going to be a huge hassle, I may just deside to go to West End instead. But if there is parking close to where I want to go, i am more likely to spend my time and money downtown. Now, this area has plenty of parking, but that may not be the case in 5-10 years.
Nope, the city has tried to compete with the suburbs by trying to be more suburban, and it hasn't worked. The city has to compete on its own terms, and that means, among other things, not encouraging abundant parking.

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Re: The Eclipse

Postby go4guy » March 11th, 2014, 11:41 am

So anyone that doesnt live in the area should just not come downtown? How is that good for anyone?

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FISHMANPET
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Re: The Eclipse

Postby FISHMANPET » March 11th, 2014, 11:47 am

There are plenty of great ways to get downtown that don't involve driving.

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Re: The Eclipse

Postby go4guy » March 11th, 2014, 11:55 am

It takes me 8 minutes to drive downtown from my house. It would take about 45 minutes to take a bus. That is my only other option. That goes for many people. People aren't going to spend 1.5 hours on a bus to go grab dinner downtown. Transit is a great option for some, but not all. And for most that do not live in Minneapolis, it just isnt a good option. All I am saying is if there is a need for parking, why not meet it. A large ramp 2 blocks from here is being torn down. This will replace some of that demand with parking that is not visible at street level. I would say that is a good thing.

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Re: The Eclipse

Postby ECtransplant » March 11th, 2014, 12:02 pm

You're fudging those numbers. An eight minute driving radius from downtown doesn't get you out of Minneapolis

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Re: The Eclipse

Postby Rich » March 11th, 2014, 12:04 pm

go4guy wrote:It takes me 8 minutes to drive downtown from my house. It would take about 45 minutes to take a bus. That is my only other option. That goes for many people. People aren't going to spend 1.5 hours on a bus to go grab dinner downtown. Transit is a great option for some, but not all. And for most that do not live in Minneapolis, it just isnt a good option.
I’ll second this. I’m 20 minutes from downtown by car (via 394), but 1 hour 45 minutes away by bus. Driving is the only realistic option for me, and for hundreds of thousands like me.

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Re: The Eclipse

Postby go4guy » March 11th, 2014, 12:15 pm

ECtransplant wrote:You're fudging those numbers. An eight minute driving radius from downtown doesn't get you out of Minneapolis
I spend under 2 miles on 100 and under 4 miles on 394 which dumps right into downtown. So probably closer to 10 minutes with exit ramps and what not. The point being, it is not convenient for everyone to use mass transit as a way to get downtown. Do I think development needs to be more dense downtown and more pedestrian freindly? Absolutely. But it also has to accomodate the 100s of thousands of people who drive into downtown for any number of reasons. With out all those suburbanites visiting downtown, there is no way downtown can flourish. And I dont think that because I live in the suburbs I should be shunned from visiting downtown.

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TommyT
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Re: The Eclipse

Postby TommyT » March 11th, 2014, 12:16 pm

ECtransplant wrote:You're fudging those numbers. An eight minute driving radius from downtown doesn't get you out of Minneapolis
It does if you're going West toward SLP/Minnetonka. I live at Lyndale/Franklin and can get to work in Minnetonka in 10 minutes with no traffic.

nickmgray
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Re: The Eclipse

Postby nickmgray » March 11th, 2014, 12:34 pm

I was trying to highlight the fact that the parking restrictions are meant to encourage public transit in and out of downtown. The fact that the city has no issues with public parking spaces seems counter intuitive. The reason Minneapolis is as successful as it is now is because there is abundant parking. downtown restaurants and night clubs are full because people from outside the core can come in and quickly find parking only a few blocks from their intended destination. But those people coming into the city are the ones causing all the traffic, not the people who actually live downtown.

It would be interesting if apartment and condo building owners downtown were to keep track of how many times cars go in and out of their parking garages. Based how much I used my car when I lived and worked downtown, I'd say most residents use their vehicle 3-4 times per week. If those people want to pay a premium just to store and extra car in their building, let them. If not, they'll just find another place to park their extra car in a public ramp across the street.

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Re: The Eclipse

Postby Gman12 » March 11th, 2014, 12:36 pm

ECtransplant wrote:You're fudging those numbers. An eight minute driving radius from downtown doesn't get you out of Minneapolis
Sure it can. Driving at freeway speeds I can get out of Minneapolis on 394 in about 2-3 minutes.

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Re: The Eclipse

Postby ECtransplant » March 11th, 2014, 12:51 pm

Travel time includes time not spent on the freeway. And you're assuming no traffic. And 8 minutes only gets you to the edge of SLP or GV, where the 14/17/12 and various express buses all get you downtown pretty easily.

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Re: The Eclipse

Postby go4guy » March 11th, 2014, 1:20 pm

But those express routes may not get you anywhere near your destination. So you either have to transfer or walk a long distance. And your example doesnt take into account driving to that bus stop, finding parking, and waiting for the bus. I go downtown often and know where to go to avoid traffic. I have ridden the bus many times when I know I will be unable to drive home. So I know which one I prefer. And I much prefer to drive due to the ease of it all. If I lived within walking distance of a light rail or express bus route, my preference would change. But that is not the case for me, and is not the case for most. So for most, driving is the preferred option. Not everyone can live downtown.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: The Eclipse

Postby FISHMANPET » March 11th, 2014, 1:22 pm

I don't live downtown and I can easily get there without driving. I reject your premise. You know those miles of land of land between the downtown core and beltway? People actually live there!


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