urbanMSP

I am beginning to cringe every time I hear the word "hulking"

Eclipse looks sharp, simple, and refined.

301 washington looks jumbled and has no point to make. It reminds me of a teenage girl (or boy... I'm not one to make judgments) caking on makeup and thinking it makes them prettier.

I'd pick Eclipse any day.

I am beginning to cringe every time I hear the word "hulking"

I agree. Maybe the developers in this town should start designing some better buildings.

Eclipse looks sharp, simple, and refined.

301 washington looks jumbled and has no point to make. It reminds me of a teenage girl (or boy... I'm not one to make judgments) caking on makeup and thinking it makes them prettier.

I'd pick Eclipse any day.

I tend to agree, actually. I like Eclipse's simplicity and sleek design, yet I like how 301 Wash. has a much better street-facing presence and connects with the street. Combine the two and you basically get Stonebridge.

The Eclipse will look a lot lighter when you have sunlight reflecting off the glass. If it's all glass it's gotta be more reflective than the renderings portray.

The Eclipse will look a lot lighter when you have sunlight reflecting off the glass. If it's all glass it's gotta be more reflective than the renderings portray.

I like the glass on the Eclipse and I don't mind that it is the predominant material and look. The problem is it's too overwhelming has nothing to play off of other than that beige brick. The exterior just needs a couple more elements to contrast /complement the glass. MBP, I get the idea of a minimalist/sleek look in a building. But I'm skeptical that was the intent. The design looks like a very minimal effort or concern was made for aesthetics. It's simplicity is to maximize profit for the developer. The architects could really care less as they get a nice fee. This is the same mentality that got us City Center (I remember, I was around when it was built).

MBP, I get the idea of a minimalist/sleek look in a building. But I'm skeptical that was the intent. The design looks like a very minimal effort or concern was made for aesthetics. It's simplicity is to maximize profit for the developer.

I agree with this statement. Start with plan, pack in the density, clad it later - do "just enough design" to get through entitlement then do the design development and then VE THAT down to the bare bones - laugh all the way to the bank.

The architects could really care less as they get a nice fee. This is the same mentality that got us City Center (I remember, I was around when it was built).

Whoa. "The architects could really care less..." Have you actually ever TALKED to an architect? 5 years of school (minimum, more often 7 years), 3-5+ years of documented and verified experience, and a year's worth of exams (if you pass) before you can LEGALLY call yourself, an "architect." For this effort, the "nice fee" that your firm collects will get you paid in the range of the average trash/recycling collector. "Nice fees" is not why people become architects, at least, I've never met anyone in this field motivated by money. I've heard the rumor that "people think all architects are rich" but I laughed it off as satire/sarcasm. Does anyone really think like this? For the record, this idea is patently false.

You mean the architects "couldN'T care less"?

Anyway, the building looks fine to me. I don't see how open/airy glass frontage at the street level with commercial space is "meeting the street poorly". Add me to the "I don't see what the problem here is" list. Hope it gets built, and with all the glass seen in the renderings. Talk about a dead horse...

You mean the architects "couldN'T care less"?

Anyway, building looks fine to me. Open glass at the street level with commercial space. Add me to the "I don't see what the problem here is" list. Hope it gets built, and with all the glass seen in the renderings. Talk about a dead horse...

Archiapolis, Oertel architects are going to get a nice fee for designing this and maybe that's to just stay afloat! I understand most architects are not rich and actually make lower salaries on average compared to other professions with the same years of educational attainment. And like any profession there are good ones and bad ones.

MNMike, I will shut up for now ( which I'm sure will please many). But if there is no change to this design and it gets built, I reserve the right (in a couple years) to say: " I told you so".

I mean, isn't the overwhelming likelihood that this isn't the final design? This is the first design and the building isn't even approved yet.

I can't wait for the inevitable "this isn't as bad as I was expecting" posts once this thing actually starts going up. Seems to happen with every project.

I'm not trying to restart this debate... but.... I just wanted to post the final models I've made for this project (remember they're not just pictures... they're models. click the links).

Detailed Model:

The detailed version takes up to 5 minutes or longer to load in google earth. http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... fee25a7f45

Simple Model:

The simple model takes much less time to load. It has the exact same form, but lacks detail. http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... 45&ct=mdsa

I like the top image, also I agree with others who say this will be visually different with actual reflective glass in. Hard to make models appropriately reflective.

I like it even more now, thanks!

*Note: I don't love how it meets the street still and I'm not crazy excited about the parking figures, but aesthetics-wise it's sleek and stands out in a positive way.

The first level looks perfect for an upscale car dealership. It's hard to envision something like that at this intersection, but it could work.

The first level looks perfect for an upscale car dealership.

Yes exactly. Fits in perfectly to create a pedestrian friendly urban neighborhood.

Those are really some nasty walls that give the finger to the sidewalk. Is it really necessary for a 5k SF workout room to take a third of a blockface? Also, I like street retail... but 5800 SF and 12100 SF: Those seem like awfully huge spaces, resulting in a low Gehl door ratio. https://streets.mn/2013/03/13/a-failure-of-frontage/

If there's only so much political capital that can be exerted by the planning process onto these designs, I hope we're more concerned about the sidewalk frontage than the parking ratios.

To that end, what could we do to encourage developers to incorporate smaller storefronts?

To that end, what could we do to encourage developers to incorporate smaller storefronts?

I'd say that you to encourage small retailers to exist. If somebody's looking to rent something, I guarantee that the developers will listen. Retailing is brutal these days, and aside from high-end boutique retail (and how much of this can we actually support?), it's not a growth market.

But I think it would be telling to go through a directory of retailers that had storefront spaces as recently as the 1980's and see how many of those functions have been obliterated by big box stores, category killers, online retailing, and a more disposable society.

Given how Stanton's Bridgewater building on Washington appears to have successfully filled quite a number of smaller retail spaces (http://goo.gl/maps/hSq2J), I would imagine Stanton could be convinced that splitting up the proposed space on such a high traffic corner would work well.

But, perhaps he already has some specific tenants in mind?

I think part of that is how we've made it impossible through regulation for someone to open up a new tiny storefront... There are storefronts in my neighborhood that are literally 100 square feet. A 10 x 10 room. I bet there are a million reasons why you couldn't build a 10x10 storefront anymore, but they exist on our old streetcar corners. No off-street parking, no strict ADA compliance, if you need to go to the bathroom you go next door to the coffee shop. But the low rents create business opportunities that would not otherwise exist. One of the storefronts is leased by my neighbor across the street, a store that's only open for one or two long weekends a month. It's a hobby for them, but a cute little store that adds to the character of the neighborhood. Downtown could use that too.