RBC Gateway (Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 519'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
grant1simons2
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby grant1simons2 » March 26th, 2018, 8:21 pm

http://www.startribune.com/rbc-enters-l ... 477972333/
RBC Wealth Management said Monday that it formally agreed to anchor United Properties' proposed 33-story tower at the Nicollet Hotel Block on the north end of Nicollet Mall in downtown Minneapolis.

nstudenski
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby nstudenski » March 27th, 2018, 10:14 am

Not usually a height diva, but I am a bit disappointed by this project. It's frustrating to see four 30-ish story buildings go up on three contiguous blocks in a period of five years. You'd think a 20-story office component would justify a few more floors. At least it's not Xcel.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » March 28th, 2018, 8:10 am

It's interesting the Gateway Hotel was 18 stories...this is 33. So after all this wait and years as a parking lot we gain 15 stories? I know the new Gateway project have floor of height which most likely differ from the old hotel, but it shows that this project is disappointing as far as we know.

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Nathan
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Nathan » March 28th, 2018, 8:46 am

I'm super confused about everyone who is gripping about floor counts right now... what did you expect? Did you think the original proposal of 30 to 40 stories of hotel and apartments was suddenly going to jump to 50 stories of office space? 40 stories of hotel and apartments would have put it around what? 450 to 500 feet? Then they said it would be 30 stories of hotel and condo with a spire reaching about 450 to 500 feet and now we're talking a Mix of office and condo probably around 450 to 500 feet... this is basically the same project as it has always been just with different sized floors inside. It has a high end hotel and a great office tenant, the materials and design should be very refined and that's what counts for the 99% of us that will never see a penthouse condo here. It's going to be hundreds of times better than any of Opus' additions to the northern mall and will be a great key piece in creating an urban neighborhood feel in this area that has so desperately needed it for decades.

I'm just not sure what y'all were expecting. This will be quality and the most expensive building save for the stadium in a looooooong time.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby nordeast homer » March 28th, 2018, 8:56 am

In my case I'm griping because they only have 18 condos in this thing. It's laughable! Why even bother? Any other development that you have seen with a Four Seasons has a SIGNIFICANTLY larger housing component, this just seems like a joke. UP - Underwhelming Properties.

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Nathan
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Nathan » March 28th, 2018, 9:01 am

nordeast homer wrote:
March 28th, 2018, 8:56 am
In my case I'm griping because they only have 18 condos in this thing. It's laughable! Why even bother? Any other development that you have seen with a Four Seasons has a SIGNIFICANTLY larger housing component, this just seems like a joke. UP - Underwhelming Properties.
But do those buildings also have class A office space? This is a textbook definition of a mixed use building. Underground parking, retail, good public spaces, retail at ground level, class A office, the most luxury hotel npls has seen in forever and housing... what is there to complain about? We have an abundance of poorly designed and appointed 6 story buildings with bad street presence and no mixed use and we're mad at this?

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby nstudenski » March 28th, 2018, 9:11 am

Nathan wrote:
March 28th, 2018, 8:46 am
I'm super confused about everyone who is gripping about floor counts right now... what did you expect? Did you think the original proposal of 30 to 40 stories of hotel and apartments was suddenly going to jump to 50 stories of office space? 40 stories of hotel and apartments would have put it around what? 450 to 500 feet?
My comment was referring to the fact that the apartment piece disappeared entirely. I'm disappointed the space for RBC is supplanting the housing component instead of adding to it.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby VacantLuxuries » March 28th, 2018, 9:14 am

I wish everyone complaining was just honest and said "I wanted the Duval building and will accept nothing less than a supertall" because a lot of the griping doesn't make sense except in that context.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Nathan » March 28th, 2018, 9:17 am

nstudenski wrote:
March 28th, 2018, 9:11 am
Nathan wrote:
March 28th, 2018, 8:46 am
I'm super confused about everyone who is gripping about floor counts right now... what did you expect? Did you think the original proposal of 30 to 40 stories of hotel and apartments was suddenly going to jump to 50 stories of office space? 40 stories of hotel and apartments would have put it around what? 450 to 500 feet?
My comment was referring to the fact that the apartment piece disappeared entirely. I'm disappointed the space for RBC is supplanting the housing component instead of adding to it.
Your comment said literally nothing about housing. And my comment still stands because if this building was always proposed to be 450 to 500 feet there was never going to suddenly be office with the same amount of apartments on top. This has been the proposal from the beginning. All they did was change the insides.

nordeast homer
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby nordeast homer » March 28th, 2018, 9:38 am

VacantLuxuries wrote:
March 28th, 2018, 9:14 am
I wish everyone complaining was just honest and said "I wanted the Duval building and will accept nothing less than a supertall" because a lot of the griping doesn't make sense except in that context.
That's the thing, I don't think that the Duval would have been good on this site; somewhere else in the city, sure... I'm not upset about the height of the UP project. I wouldn't complain about more floors, but I'm not saying 40 floors or it's a bust.

Maybe I'm nitpicking because I'm not funding the project, I guess the residential component just seems short sighted is all. Either do it or don't do it; 18 units just seems half a$$ed. It's like saying you've got retail, but it's a popcorn cart in the plaza.

I

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby VacantLuxuries » March 28th, 2018, 10:14 am

I don't necessarily get the whole "let's make it exclusive" being a selling point with the 18 condos either personally. But I also don't stay at the Four Seasons when I travel so maybe this is just an uber-rich tick that us commons won't ever understand.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Silophant » March 28th, 2018, 10:22 am

Right. That's what I'm underwhelmed by. In a market where Alatus thinks they'll find 200 buyers for high-end condos, and Ryan thinks they'll find 100 buyers for super-luxury condos, UP thinks they can only get... 18?

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby TroyGBiv » March 28th, 2018, 10:28 am

The Four Seasons Hotel and Condo Tower in Denver has 102 condos. (just sharing a little factoid)

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby VacantLuxuries » March 28th, 2018, 10:31 am

TroyGBiv wrote:
March 28th, 2018, 10:28 am
The Four Seasons Hotel and Condo Tower in Denver has 102 condos. (just sharing a little factoid)
It also looks like what the Galtier Towers could be in St. Paul if someone who actually gave a damn owned them.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Squidward » March 28th, 2018, 10:52 am

I'm surprised too.. the marketability of a Four Seasons tower for ultra-luxury condos should far exceed that of an equally nice stand-alone residential tower. While I applaud UP for this risk-taking (risk-averse?) investment, it's hard not to compare this Four Seasons development in a *prime* downtown location to that of others going up in other cities.. that said, the Twin Cities $5M+ condo or home market is a small one.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » March 28th, 2018, 11:01 am

I've always half-heartedly wondered why the Pohlads couldn't at least sell more of these to well-to-do Twins players and wealthy friends. I count 17 Twins players who make at least a million a year.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Qhaberl » March 28th, 2018, 11:08 am

So does this thing have an official groundbreaking date? Any chance of it breaking ground this year?


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nordeast homer
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby nordeast homer » March 28th, 2018, 1:27 pm

I believe I read that the closing isn't until December, so... no.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby josephmck » March 28th, 2018, 1:39 pm

Where are you getting the information that these are $5 million dollar residences? Related, what in your view is the threshold pricepoint for luxury, ultra-luxury, etc.?

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby nstudenski » March 28th, 2018, 3:19 pm

Nathan wrote:
March 28th, 2018, 9:17 am
if this building was always proposed to be 450 to 500 feet there was never going to suddenly be office with the same amount of apartments on top. This has been the proposal from the beginning. All they did was change the insides.
Isn't it the insides that dictate the height of the tower?
The demand for 20 stories of office space does not cannibalize the demand for 30 stories of apartments.
If there is sufficient demand to support one or the other, there should be sufficient demand for a combined project.

I'm not that savvy to the planning/financing process, but I'm guessing it has something to do with 4 seasons.
Do other 4 seasons projects have combined apartment components?


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