RBC Gateway (Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 519'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
eastharrietguy
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby eastharrietguy » December 12th, 2018, 5:56 pm

amiller92 wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 1:40 pm
Meanwhile, people who live and work downtown tend to like them for their convenience and climate control, and property owners want them because people like them.
I think that sums it up well.

Multimodal
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby Multimodal » December 12th, 2018, 6:29 pm

amiller92 wrote:Meanwhile, people who live and work downtown tend to like them for their convenience and climate control, and property owners want them because people like them.
Just like the people in the suburbs who love their climate controlled cars, and the businesses that want to create parking spaces for them.

twinkess
Rice Park
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby twinkess » December 13th, 2018, 8:26 am

Multimodal wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 6:29 pm
amiller92 wrote:Meanwhile, people who live and work downtown tend to like them for their convenience and climate control, and property owners want them because people like them.
Just like the people in the suburbs who love their climate controlled cars, and the businesses that want to create parking spaces for them.
Which people would be using more of if there weren't skyways and downtown wasn't as desirable and smaller, moving more jobs to the suburbs.

elliotDTown
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby elliotDTown » December 15th, 2018, 2:32 pm

Have been living downtown for about 4 years almost and I still love the skyway access and getting around in the winter without the need of winter clothes.

Multimodal
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby Multimodal » December 15th, 2018, 3:22 pm

Would people enjoy the streets more if, like the skyways, they didn’t have cars or buses driving down the center of them, and were pedestrian prioritized?

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Silophant
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby Silophant » December 15th, 2018, 4:36 pm

For sure. I mean, it wouldn't fix the "cold in winter" thing, but at least half of my skyway use is because I'd rather keep moving rather than miss a light cycle and just stand there for two full minutes while hundreds of Maple Grove-bound SUVs race past.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby min-chi-cbus » December 15th, 2018, 6:17 pm

How about heated overhead lamps and sidewalks outside, for peds?

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby HiawathaGuy » January 7th, 2019, 12:26 pm

United Properties says city conditions could put Gateway tower in jeopardy
Developer says Gateway project needs rooftop sign and porte cochere for office tenant and hotel.

This should be interesting...

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Nathan
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby Nathan » January 7th, 2019, 4:18 pm

Just start over. They don't NEED anything. It's not some amazing project the city should bend over backwards for.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby SurlyLHT » January 7th, 2019, 4:28 pm

Maybe they could make the sign "Iconic," maybe place, "RBC," on a giant spire or architectural element on the top? Or maybe a giant neon sign like the Gold Medal Flour and Grain Belt Beer signs on the river.

TroyGBiv
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby TroyGBiv » January 7th, 2019, 5:47 pm

Nathan wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 4:18 pm
Just start over. They don't NEED anything. It's not some amazing project the city should bend over backwards for.
Agreed. This feels like extortion. They know that they city has had a no sign above 50 feet policy and now they make it a deal breaker after the city has gone out of their way to extend deadlines... One of the main reasons this city is as beautiful as it is that it that the architecture is not cluttered up with ugly illuminated corporate logos. I would love this project moving forward - but not if it sets a bad new precedent...

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby mnmike » January 7th, 2019, 6:32 pm

I really couldn't care less about the pull in for the hotel...I think it would actually improve this part of Hennepin, keeping some activity going there often, and you know it would be a well maintained area with that type of hotel. The sign, I can see being an issue, I do like that we aren't cluttered with company names! Though, there are already exceptions downtown, how did those happen? Thrivent, Hilton (maybe because that was developed by the city?), Loews, Hyatt, Hyatt Place(maybe grandfathered in because Centre Village?), Wells Fargo. So there is already precedent, none of those are as high as this would be though, so I guess that could be an argument to not make this another exception. The newer Wells Fargo towers are probably the best example of precedent for this.

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Silophant
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby Silophant » January 7th, 2019, 7:01 pm

As I understand it, the ordinance specifically has an exemption for hotel signage, on the grounds that it helps (drunken?) guests find their way back, and there was a specific clause in the stadium legislation preempting the city ordinance for the stadium and also for the WF towers. The only signage I don't know about is the Thrivent sign, which I have no idea about the origin of. But, of course, that one will presumably be going away when they move out.

Either way, I'm hopeful that the city grants the porte cochere appeal, but not the signage one. I absolutely don't believe that RBC is going to scrap their whole new office plan over a sign that they've gotten by without for the past however many decades.

downtowndweller
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby downtowndweller » January 7th, 2019, 9:08 pm

I’ve heard the Thrivent sign will be going away and will be replaced by a slightly smaller Hennepin Healthcare sign.

princemob
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby princemob » January 8th, 2019, 6:01 am

I'm thoroughly annoyed with this project by now.

alexschief
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby alexschief » January 8th, 2019, 8:52 am

The porte-cochère problem is made worse by the continued intrusion of the extremely stupid streetcar easement. It was a mistake to start redevelopment of this block without first killing that really bad idea (and biting the bullet and returning the federal transit funds tied up for decades on this block).

The elimination of the streetcar easement would allow the entire block to be redeveloped, not just the western half, and would not longer force designers into these bizarre choices of where to squeeze in various ground level uses.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby HiawathaGuy » January 8th, 2019, 10:18 am

alexschief wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 8:52 am
The porte-cochère problem is made worse by the continued intrusion of the extremely stupid streetcar easement. It was a mistake to start redevelopment of this block without first killing that really bad idea (and biting the bullet and returning the federal transit funds tied up for decades on this block).
Those Federal Transit Funds aren't tied up in this block any longer. That changed 4 years ago now when they swapped the bus layover to portion to the Gateway Ramp.

alexschief
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby alexschief » January 8th, 2019, 10:26 am

I stand corrected on that front then, thanks. The point about the streetcar still remains though.

Funny story, the Gateway Ramp is also a monstrosity that ought to be vaporized.

MNdible
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby MNdible » January 8th, 2019, 11:40 am

The documentation for their appeal to this has now posted [PDF], and the valet ramp seems to be much improved from the previous iteration. It looks like Public Works is specifically opposed to the port cochere, but even more opposed to the port cochere without the valet ramp (that the planning commission approved) because of the very round-about path it would force valeted cars to take.

Re: The sign. It's a bummer, but I feel like this ship sailed when the city approved the Thrivent sign for no particularly compelling reason. Companies expect this (and they get it in most other cities). I too prefer a skyline uncluttered by signs, but I'm really not sure how hard of a game of chicken I want the city to play over it.

David Greene
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby David Greene » January 8th, 2019, 2:37 pm

In my view, there's no game of chicken. Losing this mediocre development over a sign dispute would be perfectly fine. I'm ok with leaving this block empty for a while in order to get something better.


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