RBC Gateway (Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 519'

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VAStationDude
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby VAStationDude » December 12th, 2014, 10:02 pm

I'm a descendant of fifty generations of farmers in this country and Germany but I couldn't make a garden to save my life.

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Anondson
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Anondson » December 12th, 2014, 10:32 pm

That strib news story had a nice image of Duval's Nicollet Gateway's plaza and atrium, plus a good angle of the podium height. Looks like the Duval proposal doesn't make it easy to sling the street car from Nicollet to Hennepin like the other two we have seen.

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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby David Greene » December 12th, 2014, 10:58 pm


mattaudio
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby mattaudio » December 13th, 2014, 6:58 am

Silophant wrote:Are there any broadcasters looking to move downtown? A TV/radio studio seems like a strange thing to build on spec, but the Duval proposal is the second proposal to include one in just a few months.
Makes me wonder if someone was courted last-minute by the Wilfs when they tried to throw a wrench in the DTE air rights RFP. And I can't imagine spec studio space being built for a variety of reasons (there seems to be a glut of soundstage availability here anyways).

My guess is that CBS is looking to unload their downtown real estate. We know that Target has looked into buying out the WCCO-TV half block, a parcel owned by CBS worth over $8 million. We also know that WCCO Radio building is owned by CBS Radio, worth roughly $2 million. And we know that over the last decade there's been a significant amount of merging and crossover between the two properties and their news operations.

I'm convinced with about 75% certainty that the "television and radio" facilities would be for CBS local properties allowing them to get under one roof to realize long-term organizational synergies and cost savings while unloading $10+ million worth of real estate in two different parts of DT Mpls.

Record Machine
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Record Machine » December 13th, 2014, 10:17 am

This thing looks WAY out of proportion.

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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Mdcastle » December 13th, 2014, 10:18 am

It's been years since I was in the business, but channel 9 was really happy in their current location. (As a side note they were the last holdout that used tube cameras in the studio because the station engineer liked them, as do I, but they had to finally ditch them with the move to HDTV).

John
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby John » December 13th, 2014, 10:20 am

There was some talk a few years ago Target might want buy the CCO building to build a new tower. They would control about 3/4 of that block which could then facilitate enough space for a large building. The north end of Nicollet Mall would be a great place for them to relocate and maintain their highly visible presence in the community on Nicollet Mall.

As far as the height and proportion , really about a 45 story building would work well. It would be tall enough to make a dent in the skyline and make it "iconic " in that sense, yet fit in with the shorter 30 story buildings being proposed or built nearby.

Speaking of out of proportion, just imagine what people said when the IDS Tower was built???
Last edited by John on December 13th, 2014, 10:47 am, edited 3 times in total.

m b p
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby m b p » December 13th, 2014, 10:43 am

John wrote:There was some talk a few years ago Target might want buy the CCO building to build a new tower. They would control about 3/4 of that block which could then facilitate enough space for a large building. The north end of Nicollet Mall would be a great place for them to relocate and maintain their highly visible presence in the community.

I hate to turn this conversation into something else... but...

...I believe there are 2 "very tall towers" being planned for that block. One is the Target Tower (wherever that is in the planning stages... we don't know) @ the 10th - 11th and Nicollet side of the block. The other is @ the 10th and Marquette side of the block and is apparently much further along in planning.


*edit... When I heard about 10th and Marquette, I assumed it was on the Target block... the western side of the intersection of 10th and Marquette. However, I think the actual location is the parking lot at the northern side of the intersection.
Last edited by m b p on December 13th, 2014, 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

a_tribe_called_chris
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby a_tribe_called_chris » December 13th, 2014, 10:59 am

One could say the Willis Tower is out of proportion as well... But it sure looks good. I would love to see some supertalls in Minneapolis to keep our place for interesting US skylines.

MinnMonkey
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby MinnMonkey » December 13th, 2014, 11:28 am

Does anyone else feel that Mortensen hasn't leaked their renderings because they are embarrassed to be compared to the other 3?

Also, with the amount of press these buildings are getting, I feel it puts a lot of pressure on Opus to do something iconic with the Ritz block.

princemob
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby princemob » December 13th, 2014, 11:58 am

This is my first post on this forum, but I have been following the development of downtown for some time on this forums. I think it's all very fascinating to see what's being developed in my time that I have been in the Twin Cities (I'm from Paris). As for the proposals, I think the Duval design is the most elegant and graceful out of what we have seen. I think it's not too much or too little of design and I think it will come down to the details. The other two, in my opinion, do not represent something that would stand the test of time design-wise. Ever since I saw the proposal, I could not sleep because it made me very excited and I do hope that this, or a close version of it, gets built ! :)

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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Silophant » December 13th, 2014, 12:44 pm

MinnMonkey wrote:Does anyone else feel that Mortensen hasn't leaked their renderings because they are embarrassed to be compared to the other 3?
It does kinda feel that way, especially given Mortenson's recent history of mediocre hotel proposals.

Having seen the rendering for the Duval's atrium, it looks even better than I had thought. It doesn't leave room for the streetcar to cut through the block, but I don't really see a problem with having it turn down Third or Washington to get to the bridge.

Edit: Added quote to make it clear who I was responding to. Also, welcome to the forum, princemob!
Last edited by Silophant on December 13th, 2014, 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jet777
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby jet777 » December 13th, 2014, 2:20 pm

80 stories not tall enough. Minneapolis needs SKYscrapers.

TroyGBiv
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby TroyGBiv » December 13th, 2014, 2:22 pm

"My guess is that CBS is looking to unload their downtown real estate. We know that Target has looked into buying out the WCCO-TV half block, a parcel owned by CBS worth over $8 million. We also know that WCCO Radio building is owned by CBS Radio, worth roughly $2 million. And we know that over the last decade there's been a significant amount of merging and crossover between the two properties and their news operations.

I'm convinced with about 75% certainty that the "television and radio" facilities would be for CBS local properties allowing them to get under one roof to realize long-term organizational synergies and cost savings while unloading $10+ million worth of real estate in two different parts of DT Mpls.[/quote]"


Great point! There have been rumors about CBS and their properties downtown - Network own affiliates in other cities are frequently consolidated for efficiencies and property ownership isn't necessarily past of their business strategy. I have also heard rumors about FOX wanting to move from Eden Prairie to downtown because of the FOXsports division. The Fox rumor was what I thought might be the "studio" moving over to the stadium site. My friends at Target have said that they have always been looking to build another tower to bring the Multifoods Tower staff over the the headquarters complex. When they bought the lot across the street they knew that they couldn't tear down the old Handicrafts Guild building on the Marquette side so the only way to create a larger footprint is the WCCO building.

I think I see some of what Texas RE has been talking about! This is a really exciting time for downtown!

uptowncarag

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby uptowncarag » December 13th, 2014, 3:32 pm

m b p wrote:Here's the preliminary model:
Duval - Nicollet Hotel Block

Estimated at 910 ft.

Additional locations/images:
Very cool, I imagine it would look great from Calhoun and when you are heading north on 35 in Burnsville when you can see the whole skyline. There will always be in-fill but if there is ever a chance for a supertall this is it,

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Anondson
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Anondson » December 13th, 2014, 3:56 pm

Not sure you'd see it from Calhoun. The image above from 35W northbound you can barely see it. I wager it'd look splendid from the 35W bridge though.

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Michael
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Michael » December 13th, 2014, 9:09 pm

Gotta vote for the Duval proposal. Even though it would pretty much block off one of the last open views from the Soo Line Skydeck, it really is a bold and iconic proposal that would show Minneapolis as a player.

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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Aville_37 » December 13th, 2014, 10:37 pm

Thoughts:

First - is anyone else a little disappointed that the city isn't going with a signature park on this lot? The city still needs more green space and a place for large gatherings/events - we've all noted that Peavey is ill designed to accommodate large events, and the Commons will undoubtedly be less than open to the public a large chunk of the year. I hope renovations to the existing Gateway Park still go forward.

In terms of the proposals - for me it's a toss up between Duval and United. While I love the idea of the city adding another "iconic' skycraper to downtown - I just don't think a supertall is right for this site and see something like this type of building belonging more downtown east in further in "the core". Also - I thought one of the city's requirements was that any proposal include retail. I don't see any mention of Duval's proposal including retail or even restaurant space. To me - United's design, while perhaps not as "iconic", seems to be a lot more fun and has the potential to activate that block 24/7 with office/residential/retail and green space. I think the residential portion needs some reworking but I like the rounded/curving portion of the lower structure, etc. and the way the design cuts up the block with pathways, etc.

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Anondson
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Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Anondson » December 13th, 2014, 10:48 pm

The Duval description of the atrium describes the presence of restaurants and retail, as well as valet service for those.

With the burgeoning residential around this end of Nicollet, nearly walking distance to the growing North Loop and the Mill District, I'd love to see an Apple Store in the Duval retail space.
Last edited by Anondson on December 13th, 2014, 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Silophant » December 13th, 2014, 10:51 pm

The Duval press release Neptune posted a page or two back mentioned a restaurant between the TV and radio studios. As far as retail goes, even though I don't recall it being mentioned, I can't image that there wouldn't be retail in the atrium, just like at the Crystal Court and USBank Plaza. Remember that these aren't the full proposals that we're seeing.

As far as the lack of park goes, I'm not really too worried about it. I wouldn't be against it if it were proposed, but I'd rather see improvements to the downtown public space we have (Gateway, Peavey, both sides of the Government Center, than to have more indifferently maintained space. As far as the Commons goes, call me overly optimistic, but I don't think it's going to be the privatized nightmare everyone's worried about. It would be better if the Vikings didn't have so much control over it, but to hear people talk about it you'd think it's going to be fenced off with razor wire from May to February.


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