RBC Gateway (Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 519'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6191
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby twincitizen » December 22nd, 2014, 8:48 am

If it's WCCO, that sets up a huge shakeup for the other end of Nicollet Mall in the years to come.

If it's someone other than WCCO, then it's less monumental but still cool that someone else (KMSP-9 or KARE-11) is vacating their suburban location.

Either way it's interesting, though not critical to the development. Odd that we haven't heard anything (outside of Duval's announcement) about one of the local stations looking for new space. You'd think that would make news (pun intended) on its own and wouldn't be tied to this one specific development proposal.

xandrex
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1355
Joined: January 30th, 2013, 11:14 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby xandrex » December 22nd, 2014, 9:19 am

Chauncey87 wrote:
xandrex wrote:I really, really like the Duval proposal, but I sort of wish it was built closer to the core. I think it's architecturally interesting, but it towers over some of the other buildings in the area is a way that feels unnatural, I think it part because it's separated from other skyscrapers, with very little hope that it will be "connected" to them in the future (unless the Ritz block turns into something pretty spectacular and tall).

I am sure over 40 years ago people said the same thing about the IDS. If the Duval proposal is built I am willing to bet it wont look out of place for to long.

I also found an old thread for general skyway talk if any of you want to keep going deeper into that topic.

https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=13& ... ays#p69208
I had a feeling this argument would bubble up, but I think there's quite a difference between IDS and this project.

IDS was really our first truly tall building (Foshay not withstanding). It was going to stick out no matter what. Between demand and a focus on a tight core, we slowly built up.

But this building is different. It's surrounded by a low-rise 222 Hennepin, Yamasaki-built Voya Building, Marquette Plaza, and the library. Some are new construction, while others are historic or generally not threatened by demolition, so none of those buildings are going anywhere anytime soon. That means that unless we build something big on the Ritz block, this will be disconnected from the rest of downtown and surrounded by short buildings for decades to come.

That doesn't mean I oppose it. I just think it will stick out funny (I think the same thing to a lesser extent about the Carlyle and RiverWest).

nordeast homer
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 708
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 11:11 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby nordeast homer » December 22nd, 2014, 9:26 am

Given that this is essentially a conceptual stage I'm not surprised that there isn't any intel out there. The development is still years out and I'm guessing that nothing would be mentioned until the city decides who the developer will be, and only if Duval wins would we hear who has interest in occupying the space.

I know WCCO has spent millions on their building over the last 5-10 years, but the office space is still quite cramped and I don't think they'd mind a newer facility.

John
Capella Tower
Posts: 2234
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 2:06 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby John » December 22nd, 2014, 9:46 am

nordeast homer wrote:I know WCCO has spent millions on their building over the last 5-10 years, but the office space is still quite cramped and I don't think they'd mind a newer facility.
I get a hunch they would be the TV station to locate here. I live in the area near WCCO and Target and the neighborhood gossip is Target wants to control the other side of the block for future expansion.

Didier
Capella Tower
Posts: 2383
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 10:11 am
Location: MSP

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Didier » December 22nd, 2014, 10:06 am

The fact that a potential TV studio was mentioned in the first draft for one of four proposals for this site probably means very little.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 3881
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: The Gateway

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Silophant » December 22nd, 2014, 10:24 am

But remember that the Vikings' attempt to steal the ramp development from Ryan also included a studio. I think someone's gotta be thinking about moving, or all these places wouldn't be suggesting it.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4355
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby FISHMANPET » December 22nd, 2014, 10:26 am

The Vikings proposal was a freelance studio, where visiting broadcasters would pay to rent it out for their broadcasts. I don't know how many sports events needing gigantic coverage you'd need to make that pencil out though.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 3881
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: The Gateway

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Silophant » December 22nd, 2014, 10:39 am

Ah. Strange.

grrdanko
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 158
Joined: December 21st, 2014, 3:14 pm
Location: Downtown

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby grrdanko » December 22nd, 2014, 12:12 pm


lordmoke
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1401
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 1:39 pm
Location: Nicollet Island

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby lordmoke » December 22nd, 2014, 12:17 pm

grrdanko wrote:http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... duval.html

I guess KARE 11 wants the studio.
Nice! That was my guess. Their facilities are getting old and aren't in a great location. Being the other top-teir local news outlet, moving downtown makes sense. WCCO has incredibly nice facilities- aside from possible pressure from Target, there is no reason for WCCO to consider leaving.

acs
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1360
Joined: March 26th, 2014, 8:41 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby acs » December 22nd, 2014, 12:20 pm

Looks like Duval also put up a facebook page and are asking for community input.

https://www.facebook.com/nicolletgateway

xandrex
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1355
Joined: January 30th, 2013, 11:14 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby xandrex » December 22nd, 2014, 12:44 pm

lordmoke wrote:Nice! That was my guess. Their facilities are getting old and aren't in a great location. Being the other top-teir local news outlet, moving downtown makes sense. WCCO has incredibly nice facilities- aside from possible pressure from Target, there is no reason for WCCO to consider leaving.
Sounds like they would still maintain the GV location as their HQ, according to the Business Journal. Though I wonder if they'd slowly transition to downtown?

As for WCCO, I have to wonder if they could be a part of any future Target redevelopment of the block. I suppose probably not, unless they could find a temporarily facility while the block was built out.

Architorture
Metrodome
Posts: 67
Joined: December 26th, 2012, 1:21 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Architorture » December 22nd, 2014, 1:43 pm

I'm starting to get the feeling that if the Duval proposal isn't selected there will be a mass suicide from the top of the IDS into Crystal Court.
Last edited by Architorture on December 22nd, 2014, 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 3881
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: The Gateway

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Silophant » December 22nd, 2014, 2:06 pm

Maybe. Depends on the reasoning. If it doesn't get selected out of respect for the IDS, I'll be first on the roof.

xandrex
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1355
Joined: January 30th, 2013, 11:14 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby xandrex » December 22nd, 2014, 3:21 pm

Silophant wrote:Maybe. Depends on the reasoning. If it doesn't get selected out of respect for the IDS, I'll be first on the roof.
Even if that was their reasoning, I don't think they'd actually say that. And has there been any proof that it's city officials actually preventing anything from being taller? It seems like developers are the ones who keep IDS sacrosanct more so than the city.

nickmgray
Union Depot
Posts: 331
Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 10:40 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby nickmgray » December 22nd, 2014, 3:33 pm

xandrex wrote:Even if that was their reasoning, I don't think they'd actually say that. And has there been any proof that it's city officials actually preventing anything from being taller? It seems like developers are the ones who keep IDS sacrosanct more so than the city.
There's a reason that our three tall buildings are practically the same height. I doubt the original plans for the WF and Capella towers was to come up just shy of the IDS.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 3881
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: The Gateway

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Silophant » December 22nd, 2014, 3:43 pm

Somewhere on this board there's an image of an old newspaper article with a picture of the original 950?-foot Norwest/WF Center design.

Minneboy
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 659
Joined: January 15th, 2013, 1:18 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Minneboy » December 22nd, 2014, 3:45 pm

Silophant wrote:Somewhere on this board there's an image of an old newspaper article with a picture of the original 950?-foot Norwest/WF Center design.
Okay what's the prize if I spend the time to find it?

grrdanko
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 158
Joined: December 21st, 2014, 3:14 pm
Location: Downtown

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby grrdanko » December 22nd, 2014, 3:47 pm

I think the reason no building has been taller than the IDS is because of the weird Minnesota culture. There is a certain segment of the population that thinks it would be rude or unnecessarily competitive to make a taller building than the IDS. My question is: why not 100 stories or 120? My choice for this site would be the tallest one pretty much no matter what.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6191
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby twincitizen » December 22nd, 2014, 3:49 pm

nickmgray wrote:
xandrex wrote:Even if that was their reasoning, I don't think they'd actually say that. And has there been any proof that it's city officials actually preventing anything from being taller? It seems like developers are the ones who keep IDS sacrosanct more so than the city.
There's a reason that our three tall buildings are practically the same height. I doubt the original plans for the WF and Capella towers was to come up just shy of the IDS.
We've endlessly rehashed this conversation, but if there was ever an era where deference to IDS' height was an actual thing, that era has since passed. The only thing holding back a new tallest building today is the lack of demand for large amounts of expensive downtown office space. If Duval is not selected, it will be because the city doesn't believe they can finance/execute.

I could picture maaaybe Barb Johnson on the current council caring about IDS being the tallest building, but she's likely alone in that regard. This council wants the building that is going to add the most activity and the most tax base to that parcel. And they want it to actually get built, of course.

Separate question, directly related to the question of height & potential demand for new office space: Does anyone have an idea of just how much office space Duval is proposing here? My gut would tell me it isn't very much (like probably under 250k sf), and that the building would be mainly residential/hotel.


Return to “Minneapolis - Downtown”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests