RBC Gateway & Four Seasons - 37 stories - 519'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
lordmoke
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby lordmoke » December 22nd, 2014, 4:21 pm

Somewhere on this board there's an image of an old newspaper article with a picture of the original 950?-foot Norwest/WF Center design.
Yonder, towards the bottom:
https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=295&start=200

John
Capella Tower
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby John » December 22nd, 2014, 4:59 pm

Separate question, directly related to the question of height & potential demand for new office space: Does anyone have an idea of just how much office space Duval is proposing here? My gut would tell me it isn't very much (like probably under 250k sf), and that the building would be mainly residential/hotel.
The floor plates for the tower are small so I think your hunch is good. 25 stories for the office, 25 for the hotel, and 30 for the residential. Something in that ball park. Really three fairly modest proposals packed (or stacked!) into one building.

AccordGuy
Metrodome
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby AccordGuy » December 22nd, 2014, 5:39 pm

Maybe. Depends on the reasoning. If it doesn't get selected out of respect for the IDS, I'll be first on the roof.
I certainty hope it doesn't get rejected because of this. IDS is a great building, but it doesn't deserve that kind of respect.
Born in Minneapolis.

7sisters
Block E
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Joined: December 15th, 2014, 7:16 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby 7sisters » December 22nd, 2014, 6:03 pm

Philadelphia had this same weird "can't build height than" respect garbage. It has long been shot down and they have added many tall towers. And their still adding. It's done a lot for the city and brought a lot of revenue to downtown. Minneapolis needs to take lessons and how to build a tall building higher than 792'

AccordGuy
Metrodome
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Location: Minneapolis

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby AccordGuy » December 22nd, 2014, 8:03 pm

Philadelphia had this same weird "can't build height than" respect garbage. It has long been shot down and they have added many tall towers. And their still adding. It's done a lot for the city and brought a lot of revenue to downtown. Minneapolis needs to take lessons and how to build a tall building higher than 792'
Philly's downtown has some nice tall buildings since they lifted the height limit. Mellon Bank tower is my favorite in Philly.
I've never accepted IDS as the tallest anyway, ever since the secret got out that Capella, is actually taller due to the HVAC venting equipment needs. IDS added a pole barn on top to house the window washing equipment that didn't need to be covered before. IDS was always listed as 775 in the encyclopedia when I was a kid, as we had no Wikipedia in the 70's and 80's, and Capella is 776.
We have three buildings that are essentially the same height when viewed from afar, from any direction, which makes our skyline look like a table mesa, not a pyramid. Build higher !!
Born in Minneapolis.

uptowncarag

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby uptowncarag » December 22nd, 2014, 8:43 pm

I would think some radio stations would want to be involved in some way. This being the tallest building you would think there would be some broadcast towers on the top.

AccordGuy
Metrodome
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Location: Minneapolis

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby AccordGuy » December 22nd, 2014, 9:07 pm

I would think some radio stations would want to be involved in some way. This being the tallest building you would think there would be some broadcast towers on the top.
Wouldn't they have to move the towers from IDS to a new tallest ? Maybe have twin mast's, such as the ones on top of Sears( Willis), or John Hancock in Chicago.
Born in Minneapolis.

TroyGBiv
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby TroyGBiv » December 22nd, 2014, 10:51 pm

Philadelphia's height restrictions were due to the William Penn statue on top of city hall - it and DC have these historical based restrictions. The IDS tower's tower is still up and I think that it is counted at 792 feet tall when it is included but I'm not sure because I thought the radio towers were about 100' ...

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Avian
Union Depot
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Avian » December 22nd, 2014, 11:03 pm

The IDS is 792 feet tall with the window-washing garage. The two broadcast masts bring the height to 910 feet.

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”
― Plato

Silophant
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Silophant » December 22nd, 2014, 11:14 pm

The IDS Center is 792' not counting the radio masts, 910' counting them. There may very well be a broadcast mast on top of the Nicollet Gateway, but I doubt that they would move the IDS's masts to the new building. In a flat area like this, gaining an extra 100' doesn't really make that much of a difference. Stations that really need that extra height would likely have moved their broadcasts to the 1500' towers in Shoreview or Big Lake long ago.
Joey Senkyr
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mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Joined: June 2nd, 2012, 11:01 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby mnmike » December 23rd, 2014, 9:15 am

I hardly like to count that extra 17 feet on IDS...I mean it's basically a shed on top the building.

mullen
Foshay Tower
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby mullen » December 23rd, 2014, 9:36 am

70 surface lots dt? i guess someone counted. that's pathetic. I like his take on all of this.
http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... page=1&c=y

twincitizen
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby twincitizen » December 23rd, 2014, 9:46 am

Our very own lordmoke made an excellent map of all the surface parking lots downtown: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=13& ... map#p48486

mullen
Foshay Tower
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Joined: June 4th, 2012, 7:02 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby mullen » December 23rd, 2014, 10:07 am

oh thanks for that link. look at all that red. sheesh.

martykoessel
Landmark Center
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Joined: June 1st, 2012, 9:12 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby martykoessel » December 23rd, 2014, 10:21 am

And this map doesn't include parking ramps! It's like London after the blitz.

xandrex
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby xandrex » December 23rd, 2014, 11:03 am

70 surface lots dt? i guess someone counted. that's pathetic. I like his take on all of this.
http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... page=1&c=y
It was such a Minnesotan read. Very much a, "Hey, shouldn't we be looking at these more modest proposals?"

I couldn't tell if he was trying to cushion the blow for himself/us should Duval not be chosen or if he actually doesn't like it.

7sisters
Block E
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Joined: December 15th, 2014, 7:16 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby 7sisters » December 23rd, 2014, 11:29 am

Such a Minnesota read- yes. Excluding New York for sure, just about every downtown city has many many surface lots, yet I guarantee you'd never read an article wrote like this if this was proposed in another city. I'm surprised our new stadium is seating over 60 thousand! And an article wasn't published to downsize its capacity... although I'm sure it would have been if the stadiums seating proposal was 80+ maybe we need to take the "Minnie" out of Minneapolis? Maybe it's a phycological thing!

mullen
Foshay Tower
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Joined: June 4th, 2012, 7:02 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby mullen » December 23rd, 2014, 12:22 pm

his take about perhaps office space demand not so much driving the Duval proposal was interesting. i think it reads as someone who knows the market and the players who operate within it. lack of space is one of the factors which drives the building of tall towers in mega cities such as chicago and new york.

so would the tallest proposal go forward with some spec space. takes hubris to build an 80 story building here. but it took hubris to build the foshay tower and IDS. so maybe now's the time someone takes another leap of faith.

go4guy
Foshay Tower
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby go4guy » December 23rd, 2014, 12:46 pm

What the author fails to inform the reader about, is that the tower will have 3 separate uses. 1/3 each of residential apartments, hotel, and office. 80 stories of a single use would be much harder to fill. But the residential portion is similar in size to many other apartment towers being built. The hotel is similar to other new hotels being built. And the office space is not too large either. A hotel will fill up its use, demand for apartments is still there, and the height of this tower will set it apart and give it a leasing advantage. So even if they dont lease any of the office (highly unlikely) it will still be 2/3 full.

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FISHMANPET
IDS Center
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby FISHMANPET » December 23rd, 2014, 12:48 pm

I know the Foshay was full on Hubris, but how much hubris was IDS? AKA how much of that space did IDS use right out of the gate?
E: It looks like IDS and Dayton-Hudson were both major tenants, but anyone know how much space was left over afterward?


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