RBC Gateway & Four Seasons - 37 stories - 519'

[martykoessel]

Of course this topic is never-ending, but I think that on this forum we focus way too much on the skyline. Some of the world's most interesting cities have inspiring skylines, some don't. What they all have in common is that it's fun to walk around in them. In none of them do you spend much time walking past parking lots and ramps. Once visitors get into our city, the street experience is what will please them or make them want to go away. That goes double for people considering living in the city. I'll take, any day, a ten-story building that encourages a dynamic street life over a 100-story monster that fails at this.

We'll lose if we compete head-to-head with the best attributes of world-class cities like New York and Hong Kong. We can succeed in making our relatively little burg nicer and more livable in the most nuanced senses of urbanity. Even among those of us with a gut preference for height, do many fundamentally disagree with this observation?

Maybe this is the standard by which we--and the City of Minneapolis--should be judging the proposals for the Nicollet Hotel block.

[GrowMPLS]

Height is all that project had going for it and they couldn't prove the ability to achieve that. End of story. No one's fault but their own.

I disagree that height was all it had going for it, but yeah , Duval screwed it up. I do hope he returns with another proposal elsewhere that has height, preferably closer to the tallest towers. There are still quite a few sites left downtown that need to be filled.

I agree. I thought that the 80 story tower looked odd sitting off to the north. Nestled in with its tallish buddies would look much better!!!

[GrowMPLS]

Do people think that the final chosen design will go through much revision? How much actual design input does the city have? I feel like the remaining three proposals have potential but are not quite there yet. I also think that the street car options are not very clear either. Any thoughts?

These are merely concepts and will be revised significantly. I dig the United Properties idea of the streetcar going through/under the building. I think that design is the best option.

[IllogicalJake]

Do people think that the final chosen design will go through much revision? How much actual design input does the city have? I feel like the remaining three proposals have potential but are not quite there yet. I also think that the street car options are not very clear either. Any thoughts?

These are merely concepts and will be revised significantly. I dig the United Properties idea of the streetcar going through/under the building. I think that design is the best option.

I really wish more of the proposals had gone with the streetcar element. It was just an optional part of the RFP, but still so cool to see in a render.

[TroyGBiv]

This block design would be easier if there was a better sense of the development that Opus is proposing. I have seen the rough 30 story towers rendering but those are just "placeholders". I wonder if this process has positively affected Opus's efforts?

[Wedgeguy]

This block design would be easier if there was a better sense of the development that Opus is proposing. I have seen the rough 30 story towers rendering but those are just "placeholders". I wonder if this process has positively affected Opus's efforts?

We will now bare witness to the E block 2, on the Nicollet block and the Ritz blocks. After watching the Conservatory disaster in the 90's I see nothing short of the same with the cards that they will be dealing with on that end of the mall. Call me a pessimist if you want. I've watch the MPLS city planners screw up a good thing way too many times. Not even Jacob Frey's words of optimism will be enough to save this sinking ship. The 2 blocks from 6th to 4th on the mall, will create a natural barrier for people to want to head to the north end of the mall. Opus with the Nic has already shown us they are incapable of producing a building that will truly enliven the street. The Ritz block is a failure without even seeing a proposal as they have shown us what they are capable of, meritocracy. The city being unable to put out a proposal on the Nicollet block that all 4 developers can at least get right, did not seem to work. Failure of the city planning department in getting their wants established was a failure. The developers did not follow any of the real guidelines and the city did not say that they failed to do their jobs. Due to the city and developers negligence, I pronounce the north end of the mall a failure. Save 200 million and wait another generation until we have some real leadership in the city hall and in the cities development community. This batch of leaders is only leading us into another rabbit hole of meritocracy.

[John]

Once visitors get into our city, the street experience is what will please them or make them want to go away. That goes double for people considering living in the city. I'll take, any day, a ten-story building that encourages a dynamic street life over a 100-story monster that fails at this.

I'm in 100% agreement with this part of your comment. I really wish they would focus on more street level retail here which would tie into the growing retail scene along Washington Ave and the North Loop. I know I'm a broken record, but having an anchor tenant on this block like an Urban REI or Apple etc would be a major draw. Again, the city really needs to insist on something bolder here than yet another boxy overpriced apartment tower with an overpriced restaurant on the first floor. If the developers can't do any better than that the city should really reject all of them and put this parcel back in RFP.

[TroyGBiv]

I should reread the RFP... I don't know if it had any requirements on street frontage or retail. I agree with you John - if this process doesn't generate a project that addresses all levels of the urban landscape, they either need to send the developers back to the drawing board or start over... I am not sure that "beauty pageants" are the best way to develop a city. Volatile processes like these seem to put a wet blanket on the perception of development environment in the city.

[John21]

City staff to recommend United Properties as developer for Nicollet Hotel Block

[grant1simons2]

Not surprising, but also hoping to see some modifications. This was my runner up when duval was still in the race

[Nathan]

Strib article.

http://www.startribune.com/business/291045411.html

it says the tower has a Hilton, 300 apartments maybe a charter school... and the tower will be lit up with led lights that are in some way synced with the river. That's pretty bad ass.

[xandrex]

This whole time I had a feeling UP would get it. Even at the height of Duval Fever (and I was quite rooting for him), it just seemed like UP would somehow nab it.

[Tcmetro]

Perhaps discussed already, but what is the smaller building that will front 3rd St?

Also, looks like this one accommodates the streetcar.

36 stories isn't bad either. Especially on Hennepin where most of the buildings are a bit shorter.

[Silophant]

Cool. The more I look at the second rendering (where they actually bothered with color), the more I like it. I also like the idea of having Nicollet Mall bookended by two giant displays.

[TommyT]

Cool. The more I look at the second rendering (where they actually bothered with color)

Where is there a rendering with color? I see color in the plaza, but the tower is grey in everything I've seen.

EDIT: Fount it... http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 63771.html

[nickmgray]

So, what's the timeline going to look like?

Personally, I think this block could accommodate a second 10-20 floor tower on the opposite corner to add more office space to this side of downtown.

[acs]

It still needs to be 10 stories taller so we can see it from the vikings stadium over Marquette plaza and everything else.

[Nathan]

Hopefully, though, the lack of office space and the 300 apartments will be encouraging to opus to do something a little more aggressive in terms of an office tower residential tower combo on the Ritz site.

I love that something will finally make the library more of a subtle hidden gem. It's so out there from every angle. It will be nice for it to feel like it's in a neighborhood finally.

[Tyler]

Preferred this one from the beginning. It's the best thing to be built in quite some time.

[Silophant]

Personally, I think this block could accommodate a second 10-20 floor tower on the opposite corner to add more office space to this side of downtown.

It would be cool if the little skyway wing was set up to let a tower be built on top in the future. Not that it would necessarily happen, (Marquette Plaza, garage under Downtown East Station, Rapson Hall apparently), but it would be nice to leave the option open.