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Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Gman12
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 120
Joined: May 16th, 2013, 12:35 pm
Location: Capital of the North

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Gman12 » June 16th, 2015, 1:38 pm

mnmike wrote:Is that sarcasm perhaps? Market rate is the same as all the other apartments going up....and we need to make sure the ones we have going up will fill. Probably the recent report of the 8.8% vacancy rate downtown has scared them. Now, I think a lot of that was just brand new empty units fresh on the market...but I do think now would be a good time to slow down and make sure the ones we have opening are absorbed! I don't really have high hopes for this project being anything special though :( Unless they can get some really great use in at the base. Probably a good idea to not just have 300 more apartments here though...but what could go here that would make it a bit more special!?
I guess if you want to call $1800 1 bedrooms at Nic on 5th, Soo Line, LPM, 4marq, 222, L45 etc market rate because of the inflated downtown prices thats fine, but my point is more affordable units would fill up downtown no problem. I guess developers aren't interested in shrinking their profit margins though. The only one I can think of is the Mill City Quarter and thats being developed by a non-profit.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
Posts: 3131
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 9:19 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby min-chi-cbus » June 16th, 2015, 1:39 pm

mnmike wrote:yeah, there really is a lot of demand for downtown condos...but where the demand is really high is in the 200-350k range...and I doubt these would be there:(
Unless, at $3.30 a foot rental, these units are like 500-600 SF.

kirby96
Union Depot
Posts: 356
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 11:30 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby kirby96 » June 16th, 2015, 1:44 pm

Azel wrote:United Properties guy put the percent chance this development moves ahead at 75 percent. What do you folks think?
The kiss of death. While they are still actively looking for partners there's no way they come out and publicly say, "I don't know, it's iffy. Probably only a 25-30% chance this thing happens."

75% chance is about as low as you'd go publicly. Appear confident but if it falls through can't be accused of being overconfident. This is code for less than 50% chance.

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4759
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby David Greene » June 16th, 2015, 2:09 pm

Azel wrote:United Properties guy put the percent chance this development moves ahead at 75 percent. What do you folks think?
I think the city should re-bid the project and give a longer timeline to get more responses. They still own the land, right?

It is beyond ridiculous that the winner of the bid would even *think* about not doing the project as described in the proposal that won the bid, much less not doing it at all.

John
Capella Tower
Posts: 2248
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 2:06 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby John » June 16th, 2015, 4:12 pm

David Greene wrote:
Azel wrote:United Properties guy put the percent chance this development moves ahead at 75 percent. What do you folks think?
I think the city should re-bid the project and give a longer timeline to get more responses. They still own the land, right?

It is beyond ridiculous that the winner of the bid would even *think* about not doing the project as described in the proposal that won the bid, much less not doing it at all.
100% agree.

trigonalmayhem

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby trigonalmayhem » June 16th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Crony capitalism hard at work!

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Nick
Capella Tower
Posts: 3000
Joined: May 30th, 2012, 9:33 pm
Location: Loring Park, Minneapolis

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Nick » June 16th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Gman12 wrote:I guess if you want to call $1800 1 bedrooms at Nic on 5th, Soo Line, LPM, 4marq, 222, L45 etc market rate because of the inflated downtown prices thats fine, but my point is more affordable units would fill up downtown no problem. I guess developers aren't interested in shrinking their profit margins though. The only one I can think of is the Mill City Quarter and thats being developed by a non-profit.
Gman12 wrote:I guess if you want to call $1800 1 bedrooms at Nic on 5th, Soo Line, LPM, 4marq, 222, L45 etc market rate because of the inflated downtown prices thats fine, but my point is more affordable units would fill up downtown no problem. I guess developers aren't interested in shrinking their profit margins though.
Gman12 wrote:I guess if you want to call $1800 1 bedrooms at Nic on 5th, Soo Line, LPM, 4marq, 222, L45 etc market rate because of the inflated downtown prices thats fine, but my point is more affordable units would fill up downtown no problem.
Gman12 wrote:I guess if you want to call $1800 1 bedrooms at Nic on 5th, Soo Line, LPM, 4marq, 222, L45 etc market rate because of the inflated downtown prices thats fine
Gman12 wrote:I guess if you want to call $1800 1 bedrooms at Nic on 5th, Soo Line, LPM, 4marq, 222, L45 etc market rate
Gman12 wrote:Nic on 5th, Soo Line, LPM, 4marq, 222, L45 etc market rate
Gman12 wrote:market rate
Image

trigonalmayhem

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby trigonalmayhem » June 16th, 2015, 4:32 pm

Seriously they need to put this out to bid in a way that will attract some national developers. The underwhelming home town crew never ceases to disappoint.

grant1simons2
IDS Center
Posts: 4289
Joined: February 8th, 2014, 11:33 pm
Location: Marcy-Holmes

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby grant1simons2 » June 16th, 2015, 4:41 pm

Question. Who has heard of StaurtCo before this? I looked at their site and it looks like they deal a lot in suburban apartments. They have 2 in Minneapolis. One is 430 Oak. I just wonder what they were focusing on for "trends" in the downtown market.

dbaur31
City Center
Posts: 35
Joined: August 23rd, 2012, 11:08 am

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby dbaur31 » June 16th, 2015, 7:42 pm

grant1simons2 wrote:Question. Who has heard of StaurtCo before this?
Lived in Heritage Landing for a year at 410 N 2nd in the North Loop where StuartCo was the mgmt company. Can't speak to their development savvy, but my experience with them was very good. Heritage is a good building that, style-wise, is dated now but that's the only real knock from my time there.

John
Capella Tower
Posts: 2248
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 2:06 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby John » June 16th, 2015, 8:20 pm

Well, I wonder if Mr Duval is watching all of this. If he was ever really serious about his 80 story proposal, this could be his golden opportunity to make a comeback. Sounds crazy but this is the fickle world of development ;)

bubzki2
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 730
Joined: September 19th, 2012, 5:38 pm
Location: Snelling-Hamline

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby bubzki2 » June 17th, 2015, 6:56 am

grant1simons2 wrote:Question. Who has heard of StaurtCo before this? I looked at their site and it looks like they deal a lot in suburban apartments. They have 2 in Minneapolis. One is 430 Oak. I just wonder what they were focusing on for "trends" in the downtown market.
If they're using 430 Oak Grove as a barometer for the Minneapolis market, I can see why their perceptions are skewed to the pessimistic side. That place was really struggling to fill up when I toured it more than a year after it opened.

TroyGBiv
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 624
Joined: July 6th, 2012, 10:33 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby TroyGBiv » June 17th, 2015, 8:13 am

John - I was thinking the same thing! I know the word was that Duval was looking for another location closer to the core.

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MN Fats
Union Depot
Posts: 309
Joined: July 23rd, 2014, 2:32 pm
Location: Mill District

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby MN Fats » June 17th, 2015, 8:29 am

TroyGBiv wrote:John - I was thinking the same thing! I know the word was that Duval was looking for another location closer to the core.
Wasn't that just speculation by people on here? Or was there actual weight to that?

seanrichardryan
Capella Tower
Posts: 3934
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 9:33 pm
Location: Merriam Park, St. Paul
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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby seanrichardryan » June 17th, 2015, 8:58 am

Most of this thread is speculative.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

urbancycler
Block E
Posts: 7
Joined: August 16th, 2012, 1:10 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby urbancycler » June 17th, 2015, 9:16 am

Should have gone with Mortenson. They may be jerks but they deliver. Much better design too.

TroyGBiv
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 624
Joined: July 6th, 2012, 10:33 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby TroyGBiv » June 17th, 2015, 10:48 am

A girl can dream

Architorture
Metrodome
Posts: 67
Joined: December 26th, 2012, 1:21 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Architorture » June 17th, 2015, 11:23 am

Stuart Co developed One Southdale Place and Genessee Apartments and Townhomes.

I agree this should go back out for bid. Otherwise it feels like a bait and switch to me.

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VacantLuxuries
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 711
Joined: February 20th, 2015, 12:38 pm

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby VacantLuxuries » June 17th, 2015, 11:27 am

Haven't they already purchased the lot though? I know they put in their bid at least.

Didier
Capella Tower
Posts: 2430
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 10:11 am
Location: MSP

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Postby Didier » June 17th, 2015, 1:14 pm

Some details have changed, but instead of declaring that the development rights be pulled, shouldn't we all slow down and consider that maybe the bid wasn't contingent on whether or not it was apartments/condos and a Canopy by Hilton?


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