RBC Gateway & Four Seasons - 37 stories - 519'

[AccordGuy]

Why would it be a political battle to go higher than IDS ? I love the building, and think it's a great icon in our skyline, but why is it so protected ? It would be great to have a 1000 footer in our skyline if the economics support it. So if they did, would we say no ? The IDS is a building and will not have it's feelings hurt if we go higher.

[Nick]

I don't get the sense that that will be an actual hurdle other than having to listen to a few people complain at the CPC and maybe in two or three letters to the editor. I can't imagine any real neighborhood opposition; I've gone to a few DMNA meetings and they're clearly in favor of new development.

Whether or not the market can support a 60 story building of any type on a small block is another issue. The City staff person was pretty clear that policymakers want some sort of public space (i.e. park or plaza) and so you're working with that, and probably the streetcar station. It's helpful that this is at least a year or so out, market-wise, but you'd have to imagine that the 210,000 sq ft of spec space in the North Loop will probably inch that vacancy rate up a bit, even if the sub-market is a bit different.

[Silophant]

the city staff person seemed to tell them that building anything taller than the IDS Center would be a political battle and that developers should try to keep it below the IDS. It seemed that may have been a personal desire though.

Screw that. Maybe a supertall pencils out on this site, maybe it doesn't, but its stupid to limit building height to what's already here. What if the original developer of the IDS had thought that? Would nothing taller than the Foshay ever have been built?

[Azel]

Business Journal: Nicollet Hotel block redevelopment meeting draws big names
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... l?page=all

End of story is interesting about the height.

[a_tribe_called_chris]

I would love to see another super tall or at least something to rival the IDS and 225 buildings.

[Unity77]

I would love to see another super tall or at least something to rival the IDS and 225 buildings.

We all would, but don't get your hopes up.

[min-chi-cbus]

I kind of feel like a super tall is a foregone conclusion at this point. In fact, this whole setup reminds me of the parking ramp RFP fiasco near the new Vikings stadium. Why only have the window for such a short time period if developers are asking for more time? Seems to me they already know what's going here, the City's just putting out the dog and pony show for everyone else.

But I know nothing to substantiate that claim.

[aeisenberg]

I kind of feel like a super tall is a foregone conclusion at this point.

The article says they expect demand to limit the height... I wouldn't bet on a supertall.

[GrowMPLS]

A super tall is not going to happen but this development HAS to be special!!! Come on developers......think outside the box......or at least the kind of "boxes' that seem to be going up or pitched in this city. I agree that it is odd that they are giving such a limited time to for proposals......why rush it?

[sushisimo]

This town cracks me up. City: "Build a thing!" Developer: "I'm on it!" City: "Great. Now, it needs to be over 20 stories tall, but (leans over the table in a darkly lit corner with a Bourbon and a wink) a preferable max of 56.99 stories." Developer: "So, beneath the IDS height." City: "Whuuuuut would give you that idea?"

Honestly, with all the requested mixed uses for this 'icon', I don't see why it couldn't be 70 stories. But then residential stories are shorter, so who knows how many feet it would top out at.

[ECtransplant]

I wish Lisa Bender or Jacob Frey would publicly support something taller than IDS

[John]

A I agree that it is odd that they are giving such a limited time to for proposals......why rush it?

Agree. I think its fine that local developers make proposals for the site. However, there needs to be a time frame and some publicity that allows for more national developers to have a chance to present some concepts. If nothing else, it gives some fresh perspectives on the potential for this site. Having some new perspectives is sorely needed in this town, where almost every project looks like a slight mutation of the other

[aeisenberg]

This is getting off topic, but can someone explain to me a) The preoccupation with building a supertall/ new tallest building? We have so many parking lots to fill. And b) the canonization of Lisa Bender and Jacob Frey?

[min-chi-cbus]

I kind of feel like a super tall is a foregone conclusion at this point.

The article says they expect demand to limit the height... I wouldn't bet on a supertall.

What are we calling "super tall" I guess? I meant it as over 700 feet, for our city at least. Plus, I do not think market forces will limit the height of this proposal based on what I've heard about the supposed number of (conceptual) proposals already exceeding that height. This is also just my guess.

[ECtransplant]

This is getting off topic, but can someone explain to me a) The preoccupation with building a supertall/ new tallest building? We have so many parking lots to fill. And b) the canonization of Lisa Bender and Jacob Frey?

Can someone explain to me why there is a taboo against building taller than a 40 year old building and the Wedgidents worship Meg Tuthill?

[min-chi-cbus]

This is getting off topic, but can someone explain to me a) The preoccupation with building a supertall/ new tallest building? We have so many parking lots to fill. And b) the canonization of Lisa Bender and Jacob Frey?

You have a point about supertall buildings -- they don't necessarily add to a city's vitality more than other building sizes. But there is something to be said about height and the sense of progression: cities with newer "new tallests" tend to appear more progressive than those without them. At the end of the day though it's not very important.

[EOst]

I suspect the timeline is constrained by the streetcar plans moving forward. Moreover, if there are really national firms who would be interested in building some enormous building on this site, I don't think a short timeframe is going to stop them from proposing something.

[EOst]

You have a point about supertall buildings -- they don't necessarily add to a city's vitality more than other building sizes. But there is something to be said about height and the sense of progression: cities with newer "new tallests" tend to appear more progressive than those without them. At the end of the day though it's not very important.

What was the last city to build a "new tallest" building? Seattle's has been the Columbia Center since 1985 (though there's a proposal for a new taller one); the tallest in Denver dates from 1984 (and is shorter than the IDS); Portland has had the same "highest" since 1972, etc. The only city I can think of in recent memory surpassing its tallest is NYC, and there were some unusual circumstances behind that one.

[Nick]

we're gonna fall behind OKC

[min-chi-cbus]

You have a point about supertall buildings -- they don't necessarily add to a city's vitality more than other building sizes. But there is something to be said about height and the sense of progression: cities with newer "new tallests" tend to appear more progressive than those without them. At the end of the day though it's not very important.

What was the last city to build a "new tallest" building? Seattle's has been the Columbia Center since 1985 (though there's a proposal for a new taller one); the tallest in Denver dates from 1984 (and is shorter than the IDS); Portland has had the same "highest" since 1972, etc. The only city I can think of in recent memory surpassing its tallest is NYC, and there were some unusual circumstances behind that one.

Nashville, Phily and Cincy come to mind. SF and LA are building theirs now or soon. Many cities are proposing or building theirs as well. *Edit: Austin and Oklahoma City as well. Oh, and New York.

Good enough? Anybody else?

I'm not sure I said that currently new cities are building new tallests to show off how progressive they are either, so I'm not sure what you're trying to object to. All I said is that having a new tallest building can seem progressive. Do you disagree?