RBC Gateway & Four Seasons - 37 stories - 519'

[Didier]

And to be sure, while I think Freedom Tower is iconic to New York City, I don't necessarily think tall = iconic as a rule.

Take London, for example. Of the skyscrapers, I'd call the Gherkin the most iconic — it's way more memorable than the Shard. Yet according to Wikipedia, the Gherkin is only the 10th tallest building at 590 feet.

[xandrex]

Agreed. I think a good example in Minneapolis is US Bank Plaza (Pillsbury Center). It's a rather bland pair of towers, not a huge step up from 33 South Sixth in terms of tower design. And, with the exception of the two corner plazas, one facing city hall and the other facing Northstar, it's not remarkable from a sidewalk presence. But that bright atrium is marvelous, especially on a sunny but cold Minneapolis day. And it provides public seating and tables, making it an excellent meeting point. It's not signature architecture, but it is second only to the Crystal Court in providing a bright indoor space as a destination node in the skyway network, which seems particularly Minneapolitan.

Agreed. I work in US Bank Plaza. Always thought the building was somewhere between mildly unsightly to unremarkable. But the glass atrium is absolutely fantastic and certainly the best indoor "public" space for the eastern part of the CBD.

[Wedgeguy]

The only two cities in the US that have iconic skylines are New York and Chicago. I'd say that if you had 6 skyline pic of Boston, Charlotte, Tulsa, Seattle, Philadelphia, and MPLS and asked 100 people from across the US if they could name those cities and even giving them 12 city names to chose from, less than 20% would get all right, another 30% would maybe get 4 matched up right. Leaving 50% who could not even get half of the cities right. American's are lousy with knowing about anything/place that is over 100 miles away from them.

I have to agree that the (sorry) Pillsbury Center has the second best Community function in the city. It like the IDS is a true crossroads for the community to pass thru and to stop and enjoy lunch. It is a very inviting place to go into and feel at home in.

[7sisters]

My point wasen't to argue which building in NY is their signature one. Perhaps the Empire State or Chrysler building still are over Freedom tower- At one point the Empire State clearly was NY's signature tower...in 1912 I'm guessing? My point (and opinion) is if you want to call it a signature building, 20 floors won't cut it. Neither with 30 or 40 in Minneapolis. You could make it iconic at those floor heights-no problem. But a signature tower clearly needs to surpass everything the IDS is now- assuming the higher % of Minnesotians vote the IDS as our signature tower. I think clearly it is.

[BigIdeasGuy]

The Freedom Tower is iconic because of the history of the site on which it sits and what that tower represents not because if it's design.

[Nick]

what does it represent

[EOst]

George Pataki's presidential ambitions

[MNdible]

A really poorly timed lease?

[BigIdeasGuy]

what does it represent

Freedom, never backing down, rising from the ashes, coming together in the face of adversity, etc. And yes George Pataki's Presidential ambition.

[seanrichardryan]

what does it represent

Freedom, never backing down, rising from the ashes, coming together in the face of adversity, etc. And yes George Pataki's Presidential ambition.

Since we're so far off track,

Public-private partnerships must be structured so that the public's interest is tenaci-ously safeguarded. At One WTC, it was not. Politicians, real-estate developers, police commissioners—many people are ignorant of the public value of great design. These people should not be making key design decisions without an independent design review. That many lost patience with One WTC—in the end, people just wanted it done—is no excuse. This building should never have become what it is: a failed project by an excellent design firm, and a symbol of American political incompetence, private ignorance, and greed. Surely New York City and the public deserve better than this. ... http://archrecord.construction.com/proj ... errill.asp

[Anondson]

what does it represent

What you get with design-by-committee.

[AccordGuy]

Agreed. I think a good example in Minneapolis is US Bank Plaza (Pillsbury Center). It's a rather bland pair of towers, not a huge step up from 33 South Sixth in terms of tower design. And, with the exception of the two corner plazas, one facing city hall and the other facing Northstar, it's not remarkable from a sidewalk presence. But that bright atrium is marvelous, especially on a sunny but cold Minneapolis day. And it provides public seating and tables, making it an excellent meeting point. It's not signature architecture, but it is second only to the Crystal Court in providing a bright indoor space as a destination node in the skyway network, which seems particularly Minneapolitan.

The travertine marble cladding these two towers is nice and warm when viewed up close. I miss the time when buildings used more natural materials like marble, granite, or even the ubiquitous yellow limestone we see so much around here, I believe it's called Kasota stone. The trend toward "green buildings has produced too many glass, steel, and concrete clad buildings. Not that they can't be done well, just look at IDS or the Guthrie.
My hope is that Perkins and Will have some natural stone material in mind for the base to give it some diversity of materials.

[min-chi-cbus]

what does it represent

Freedom, never backing down, rising from the ashes, coming together in the face of adversity, etc. And yes George Pataki's Presidential ambition.

Since we're so far off track,

Public-private partnerships must be structured so that the public's interest is tenaci-ously safeguarded. At One WTC, it was not. Politicians, real-estate developers, police commissioners—many people are ignorant of the public value of great design. These people should not be making key design decisions without an independent design review. That many lost patience with One WTC—in the end, people just wanted it done—is no excuse. This building should never have become what it is: a failed project by an excellent design firm, and a symbol of American political incompetence, private ignorance, and greed. Surely New York City and the public deserve better than this. ... http://archrecord.construction.com/proj ... errill.asp

I'm just glad somebody out there agrees that the new WTC is ugly as sin -- seems like most people love it!

[mullen]

i don't like the spire of one wtc, but i don't think it's a failed building.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/colu ... tml#page=1

[TroyGBiv]

"I have to agree that the (sorry) Pillsbury Center has the second best Community function in the city. It like the IDS is a true crossroads for the community to pass thru and to stop and enjoy lunch. It is a very inviting place to go into and feel at home in."(Wedgeguy)

Agreed! I wish we would see more of the new development with atriums... they are really powerful experiences for anyone working downtown... light air people gathering... plus they create really important orientation points to see the urban setting and help navigate the skyways... We would have these spaces on as many blocks as possible...

[Minneboy]

The one thing these places with atriums do is very much like the skyways, they suck the life from the street. Maybe in a cold city like we have that might be the price we pay.

[xandrex]

^How do they suck any more life from the street than any other skyway-connected building? If anything, they open up the skyway system and help harmonize it with the street level.

[mattaudio]

*maybe we can move this tangent into a better thread?

Regarding these buildings, I really wish there were more stores that had had street and skyway/interior entrances. Gaviidae tried this along Nicollet Mall, though many of the businesses seemed to fail. US Bank Plaza has great presence on two corners, and awful presence on two other corners. Having even a couple businesses open to the outside rather than simply awnings (Atlas Grill, Chipotle, etc) would do wonders. IDS is much more graceful in this regard, with a great MarkVII frontage despite no door, and doors for Cosi, Mission, and Gap. But it could still be better.

[TroyGBiv]

Just wanted to share a video from the Walker Art Center's Facebook page of the IDS during construction. The skyline was so different then... you can really see the impact!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10 ... =2&theater

[nordeast homer]

I don't like to rush time away, but April can't get here soon enough. We have the renderings, but now we have to twiddle our thumbs waiting for the decision to be made.