RBC Gateway (Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
mattaudio
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby mattaudio » March 6th, 2018, 9:38 am

What's weird is that the requirement was more financial than functional. My understanding is that some federal money was used to buy the parcel a few decades ago for a transit terminal use. But over time Metro Transit has moved away from the terminal arrangement (Leamington, ABC, Gateway, etc) and more towards running transit through downtown (Marq2, LRT, etc). Metro Transit doesn't really use it other than the layover shack on the corner, but the city would have to pay back the feds if they RFP it for a non-transit use.

It's actually shocking to think how much parking was paid for with federal transit and congestion mitigation air quality dollars... All of the ABC/Hawthorne wall was built 25 years ago, supposedly because massive parking ramps that destroy an entire side of the city are great for reducing emissions because cars can zoom through rather than idle within.

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » March 6th, 2018, 10:55 am

UP has until the end of the month with this one without going back to the Council. The grains of sand our running out of the hourglass.

MNdible
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby MNdible » March 6th, 2018, 11:04 am

mattaudio wrote:
March 6th, 2018, 9:38 am
My understanding is that some federal money was used to buy the parcel a few decades ago for a transit terminal use.
I believe that this ramp was also supposed to house the never implemented Nicollet Mall shuttle.

bapster2006
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby bapster2006 » March 9th, 2018, 1:39 pm

RBC and Four Seasons

http://m.startribune.com/plans-for-nico ... n=business

By the way, I read the report and I could easily see 500 feet to the roof line for this project. The spire is no longer included as part of the design.

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » March 9th, 2018, 1:58 pm

Here's the raw document the StarTrib refers to:

https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/RCA/2078

Silophant
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Silophant » March 9th, 2018, 2:04 pm

Aw, I liked the spire. I guess it's good to see this moving, but frustrating that is going to be at least another full year before construction starts.

mnmike
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby mnmike » March 9th, 2018, 2:13 pm

So basically it is just going to be super plain looking now. Seriously, the spire and the mullion pattern were like the biggest part of their architectural pitch...

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby MNdible » March 9th, 2018, 2:14 pm

I'd much prefer a cleaner, more unified design than something with a tacked-on spire and a gimmicky window pattern.

mnmike
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby mnmike » March 9th, 2018, 2:18 pm

Well they do say the rest of the design is spiffed up so as not to need those "gimmicks"...so we shall see!

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » March 9th, 2018, 2:30 pm

I still don't love this project. I wish it had another 10 or 15 stories of condos which seems totally doable given recent activity within the city. Nonetheless it would be a significant addition to Downtown Minneapolis on the street-level and to the skyline. Also, I saw that it mentions the city retains an easement for the streetcar.

Can this move faster than the deadlines the city is listing?

schmitzm03
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby schmitzm03 » March 9th, 2018, 2:47 pm

mnmike wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 2:13 pm
So basically it is just going to be super plain looking now. Seriously, the spire and the mullion pattern were like the biggest part of their architectural pitch...
The City report indicates the new design no longer needs the spire because it is more architecturally significant than the previous one. I'll take that with a grain of salt, based on the latest renderings on United's website, but maybe it has changed significantly since those were last updated?

rogead
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby rogead » March 9th, 2018, 6:29 pm

If I remember correctly, when the city solicited proposals for this site, they used the word “iconic”. Now it would appear that the building will stand out neither in height nor in design aesthetics.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby BigIdeasGuy » March 9th, 2018, 7:25 pm

SurlyLHT wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 2:30 pm
I still don't love this project. I wish it had another 10 or 15 stories of condos which seems totally doable given recent activity within the city.
That's what I don't get, it's great that there are 3 stories of condos. But looking at it I have a hard time seeing how 3 stories make more sense financially than even 5 or 6 stories. I would think think that once you get utilities up 33 stories the additional cost the marginal cost of bringing them of the 34, 35, 36, etc. is relatively reasonable.

Although there could be a height at that point that causes a huge jump in construction costs like going from a 6 story stick built to an all concrete 7 story building.

grant1simons2
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby grant1simons2 » March 9th, 2018, 7:27 pm

Those renderings are pretty old. About 6 months now.

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Homewood2009
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Homewood2009 » March 10th, 2018, 9:47 am

grant1simons2 wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 7:27 pm
Those renderings are pretty old. About 6 months now.
Yeah, hard to really know what they have up their sleeve architecturally at this point, until we get updated renderings. The city initially wanted something "iconic" here and it seems to be falling away from that everytime the renderings get updated, so I'm not too hopeful about this project. For me, if this doesnt break the 900 foot mark, it'll just be a meh development.

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Nathan
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Nathan » March 10th, 2018, 10:01 am

Homewood2009 wrote:
March 10th, 2018, 9:47 am
grant1simons2 wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 7:27 pm
Those renderings are pretty old. About 6 months now.
Yeah, hard to really know what they have up their sleeve architecturally at this point, until we get updated renderings. The city initially wanted something "iconic" here and it seems to be falling away from that everytime the renderings get updated, so I'm not too hopeful about this project. For me, if this doesnt break the 900 foot mark, it'll just be a meh development.
lololol where are you even thinking there's a possibility of 900 ft? And what does 900 feet have to do with a 'good building ' especially a building that is good for the city and neighborhood. I admit I'm not all that excited to think what the design might be but they're spending 330 million dollars. That means fine materials and not some total dud. That's twice the cost of any major project recently.

jaamz
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby jaamz » March 10th, 2018, 5:28 pm

Homewood2009 wrote:
March 10th, 2018, 9:47 am
grant1simons2 wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 7:27 pm
Those renderings are pretty old. About 6 months now.
Yeah, hard to really know what they have up their sleeve architecturally at this point, until we get updated renderings. The city initially wanted something "iconic" here and it seems to be falling away from that everytime the renderings get updated, so I'm not too hopeful about this project. For me, if this doesnt break the 900 foot mark, it'll just be a meh development.
LOL!...Put the pipe down.

Silophant
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Silophant » March 10th, 2018, 5:45 pm

Hmm... that document also implies that we'll be hearing something about what Opus plans to do with the rest of the Ritz block before too long. With fifteen floors or so opening up in RBC Plaza, I have a hard time believing it'll be the office tower they were apparently considering a couple of years ago, but maybe they'll be inspired by Ryan to give condos a shot instead of another apartment building.

twincitizen
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby twincitizen » March 10th, 2018, 9:17 pm

Interesting bit about the skyway connections. If anything were to hinder the two planned skyway connections, UP can pull out of the deal.
UP intends to construct a skyway across 3rd Street South to connect its project with the Hennepin County Central Library. Representatives of Hennepin County have indicated there is County support for a skyway connection across Nicollet Mall, connecting the Library to the Opus Group’s project at 315 Nicollet Mall. Letters of Intent have been executed between the County and UP and the County and OLAF LLC (property owner of 315 Nicollet Mall) outlining proposed terms of these skyway connections. The Developer asserts that adding these two connections is critical for the marketability and success of the project as it will connect the mixed-use tower to the rest of the skyway system. The Developer is currently working with officials at Hennepin County and the Opus Group to secure “skyway connection agreements” that would be executed prior to closing on the Property with the City. If UP is unable to satisfy itself with the status of the skyway connection agreements [or environmental testing of the site] by June 30, 2018, UP may terminate the agreement and the City will retain the Option Fees and $100,000 of the initial Deposit.

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Homewood2009
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Homewood2009 » March 11th, 2018, 11:37 am

jaamz wrote:
March 10th, 2018, 5:28 pm
Homewood2009 wrote:
March 10th, 2018, 9:47 am
grant1simons2 wrote:
March 9th, 2018, 7:27 pm
Those renderings are pretty old. About 6 months now.
Yeah, hard to really know what they have up their sleeve architecturally at this point, until we get updated renderings. The city initially wanted something "iconic" here and it seems to be falling away from that everytime the renderings get updated, so I'm not too hopeful about this project. For me, if this doesnt break the 900 foot mark, it'll just be a meh development.
LOL!...Put the pipe down.
A new tallest at this spot in downtown would give our skyline a nice upward thrust. Right now from a distance, our skyline has no tallest focal point because our three tallest buildings are all withing a couple feet of one another. I don't consider the window washing shed on top of IDS a part of it's height. When anyone asks, I explain the situation regarding the Capella Tower venting issue. For me, Capella is our tallest.
I remember what it was like as a kid going to the top of IDS when it still taller than everything else. The view was amazing.
Of course I would hope for an observation deck in a new tallest building. :D
I also understand that the market has to be able to support it and it gets more expensive the higher a building goes, so the need has to be there.
That's my dream. And no, there was no pipe involved. ;)


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