RBC Gateway (Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 519'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby VacantLuxuries » July 31st, 2018, 9:16 am

Almost like the plaza, retail, and restaurant space are an improvement over not just a parking lot, but the kind of street level experience we would have gotten out of a building like this 15-20 years ago.

30 stories of Class A office in this corner of downtown will help continue to fuel the crazy development we've seen up and down Washington.

I get it, we didn't get an 80 story, skyline defining tower here. But it's dishonest to claim that what's proposed here won't be a net benefit, and I'm already over the moping. If this had been proposed for Downtown East people would have been thrilled.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Silophant » July 31st, 2018, 9:35 am

Probably useless to point out that this will be about 80' taller than the tallest building in the suburbs, right? And, indeed, less than 15' shorter than the tallest building in St. Paul? It's not 800', but this will be the tallest building built since the recession (unless Eleven gets off the ground first).

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby VacantLuxuries » July 31st, 2018, 10:13 am

Silophant wrote:
July 31st, 2018, 9:35 am
And, indeed, less than 15' shorter than the tallest building in St. Paul?
New conspiracy theory - the ban on 500' tall buildings in Minneapolis isn't a shadow directive from the Minneapolis City Council, but rather the Saint Paul City Council, as a moratorium so Saint Paul could catch up and, eventually, surpass the skyline height of Minneapolis. In 100 years.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Multimodal » July 31st, 2018, 11:59 am

VacantLuxuries wrote:I get it, we didn't get an 80 story, skyline defining tower here. But it's dishonest to claim that what's proposed here won't be a net benefit, and I'm already over the moping. If this had been proposed for Downtown East people would have been thrilled.
Not trying to make this black/white, yes/no, but rather what can people push for that would make this better than what has been proposed. This is still a proposal, right?

A great building for one site could be mediocre at another. Location, location, location.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby mspguy » August 1st, 2018, 3:51 pm

I have been a long-term lurker who finally decided to register due to my sheer disgust at this “Gateway Tower” project. United Properties should be absolutely ashamed of themselves that this trash proposal (that seems to be downscaled every few months) is the best they could come with on this prime piece of real estate. They were awarded the contract nearly five years ago to produce something “iconic” and we still don’t have anything substantial. FIVE FREAKIN’ YEARS! I can’t believe that this ugly, bulky, 450-foot mediocre building is what they are going with. What a freakin’ joke and embarrassment. It needs to be thinner and taller, and at the very least 500+ feet. Alatus proves time and time again that they are the best developers in town. United Properties is nothing more than a second-rate organization that should be purged from the Twin Cities market when it comes to any future development. If it were up to me, I would just open up the bid again because UP certainly doesn’t know how to deliver. A bunch of lying buffoons is what they are.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby mnmike » August 1st, 2018, 5:46 pm

I feel like...whatever anyone's opinion is on the current proposal, it should be pointed out that we are still pretty close to the original timeline, aren't we? I think they have only had one small extension? So regardless of what is going on here...it isn't like a building should already be finished here like some people seem to be suggesting would be the case if another company had been chosen.

Also, it has been 3.5 years since the developer was chosen...not 5 as the last person said ;)

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby karlshea » August 2nd, 2018, 10:30 am

VacantLuxuries wrote:
July 31st, 2018, 10:13 am
Silophant wrote:
July 31st, 2018, 9:35 am
And, indeed, less than 15' shorter than the tallest building in St. Paul?
New conspiracy theory - the ban on 500' tall buildings in Minneapolis isn't a shadow directive from the Minneapolis City Council, but rather the Saint Paul City Council, as a moratorium so Saint Paul could catch up and, eventually, surpass the skyline height of Minneapolis. In 100 years.
I thought it was 400'? Or has the conspiracy theory been updated now that we have 400' buildings in the pipeline?

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby VacantLuxuries » August 2nd, 2018, 10:40 am

Nah, the guy on here who was pushing the conspiracy always referred to 500'. It's based around a fealty to the height of IDS.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Silophant » August 2nd, 2018, 12:26 pm

If it's MS3 we're talking about, he was setting 400' as the super secret cap, and using LPM (376') as an example, as well as being convinced that Wells Fargo was going to do a single tower before Rybak convinced them to split it into two halves.

I guess he hasn't been proven wrong yet, with both 200 Central and Gateway still ungroundbroken 3 years after they were proposed.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby VacantLuxuries » August 2nd, 2018, 1:48 pm

Ahh, searched his name and now I see my mistake. He would routinely say we would never see a 500'+ tower again because there's a 400' secret cap set by the Minneapolinati, which is why I thought 500.

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Homewood2009
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Homewood2009 » August 3rd, 2018, 6:18 am

VacantLuxuries wrote:
August 2nd, 2018, 10:40 am
Nah, the guy on here who was pushing the conspiracy always referred to 500'. It's based around a fealty to the height of IDS.
I would hope that there would be no fealty to the height of IDS, it hasn't been the tallest since Capella was finished out at 776 1/2 feet tall. Capella of course was never meant to be that tall, but due to design flaw, needed a some extra height to accomodate the venting equipment up top. After this, IDS essentially added a pole barn on top to house their window washing equipment, something they didn't need until it was discovered that they were second tallest. Then, after poile barn was completed, they lobbied to have their building listed at 790 feet.
When anyone asks, I always tell them that Capella is tallest. IDS cheated.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby karlshea » August 4th, 2018, 9:27 pm

VacantLuxuries wrote:
August 2nd, 2018, 10:40 am
Nah, the guy on here who was pushing the conspiracy always referred to 500'. It's based around a fealty to the height of IDS.
That's why I always thought it was an extra-dumb theory, since the IDS is way taller than 500'.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Silophant » August 6th, 2018, 10:27 pm

UP came to the DMNA LUC tonight with an update on this. The Four Seasons and condos are not at all dead - they still consider that 'Plan A', and are reasonably confident it will go through. But, they have a signed lease with RBC, and they have to start construction next summer to let RBC move in when the lease says they can, so they have to have the Plan B if they can't actually get the Four Seasons to commit. Apparently the lack of a porte cochere is a dealbreaker for the hotel, so that may be the hangup.

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Anondson
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Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Anondson » August 6th, 2018, 11:31 pm

This seems so confusing...
Last edited by Anondson on August 6th, 2018, 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Anondson
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Anondson » August 6th, 2018, 11:31 pm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Oh well...

Multimodal
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Multimodal » August 7th, 2018, 7:53 am

Who doesn’t want the port cochere?

Silophant
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Silophant » August 7th, 2018, 8:08 am

The city (public works, planning commission, bicycle advisory committee, CM Fletcher, etc) don't like the idea of two new vehicle conflict points being added to the sidewalk and bikeway immediately after the project to get rid of as many of them as possible is completed.

My read on it, though, is that they won't kill the hotel over it. I see that I didn't really finish my thought last night - my post should have ended "Apparently the lack of a porte cochere is a dealbreaker for the hotel, so that may be the hangup, but I think it's more just the softening hotel market in downtown."

Multimodal
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Multimodal » August 7th, 2018, 8:28 am

I see, thanks. Definitely don’t want to screw up the bike infrastructure. (Not being sarcastic)

Silophant
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Silophant » August 7th, 2018, 8:46 am

Yeah, it's a thorny problem. I agree in principle that I'd much prefer to have no vehicle crossings of the bike lane, but at the same time, that's going to be the front door of the (fancy) hotel, so a pair of vehicle crossings are preferable to continually having taxis and Ubers and car services stopping right adjacent to the bike lane and people standing in it continuously.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby mrbmpls » August 7th, 2018, 1:23 pm

I join mspguy as a long-term lurker who finally decided to register, but for an opposite opinion. This location lost it's "Gateway" status when the freeways were built and the train depots left. The gateway to our city that was here in centruries past is now more likely to be on the southern end of downtown. I honestly cannot imagine 5-star hotel guests walking down Hennepin from here to attend Hamilton at the Orpheum, or strolling down Nicollet until they find fine dining. (Upscale shopping is long gone.) I would rather see a tower anchored by a 5-star hotel be built on the parking lot block on Hennepin between 10th and 11th. That's where we've managed to keep the entertainment district.

While I liked the idea of condos here, condominium ownership has still not fully recovered in market acceptance. Besides, I really want Eleven near the Guthrie to be built, and that will satisfy the condo market for now. I think this Plan B version is more than adequate for the site, and I really like that the alignment with Hennepin instead of Nicollet will create interest. So it's not the mega project originally imagined. I'm okay with that, and welcome this version. There are plenty of locations left to redevelop that can meet that criteria if demand dictates it. I don't think that demand exists right now. Not here anyway.


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