Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
bubzki2
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby bubzki2 » January 8th, 2019, 2:41 pm

I sure hope we avoid slippery-sloping our way to signage everywhere.

MNdible
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby MNdible » January 8th, 2019, 3:12 pm

David Greene wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 2:37 pm
In my view, there's no game of chicken. Losing this mediocre development over a sign dispute would be perfectly fine. I'm ok with leaving this block empty for a while in order to get something better.
It's weird that this site still has to carry its 'iconic' baggage. If this is a mediocre development, then... what is everything else that's been built in the last two decades? I mean, this will literally be the best high-rise building built in Minneapolis since at least 2007 (Carlyle), and I'd argue that it's better than that for a number of reasons. Next candidate up is 50 South Sixth (2001), and it's also better than that.

If you've got some secret intel that somebody is going to build another IDS Center here in the next couple of years, I'm willing to wait. Otherwise, this will be a very very nice building that will anchor the north end of the Mall and vastly improve the connection between downtown and the North Loop and the river.

I'm not willing to wait another ten years for that, in the hope that somehow somebody will build us a masterpiece.

amiller92
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby amiller92 » January 8th, 2019, 3:43 pm

Especially when the objections are so tiny (yes, the sign thing is actually a small issue).

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby HiawathaGuy » January 8th, 2019, 5:53 pm

MNdible wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 3:12 pm
It's weird that this site still has to carry its 'iconic' baggage. If this is a mediocre development, then... what is everything else that's been built in the last two decades? I mean, this will literally be the best high-rise building built in Minneapolis since at least 2007 (Carlyle), and I'd argue that it's better than that for a number of reasons. Next candidate up is 50 South Sixth (2001), and it's also better than that.

If you've got some secret intel that somebody is going to build another IDS Center here in the next couple of years, I'm willing to wait. Otherwise, this will be a very very nice building that will anchor the north end of the Mall and vastly improve the connection between downtown and the North Loop and the river.

I'm not willing to wait another ten years for that, in the hope that somehow somebody will build us a masterpiece.
Thank you! I couldn't agree more - this block needs to be developed, waiting "for something better" is crazy.

mnmike
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby mnmike » January 8th, 2019, 7:31 pm

HiawathaGuy wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 5:53 pm
MNdible wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 3:12 pm
It's weird that this site still has to carry its 'iconic' baggage. If this is a mediocre development, then... what is everything else that's been built in the last two decades? I mean, this will literally be the best high-rise building built in Minneapolis since at least 2007 (Carlyle), and I'd argue that it's better than that for a number of reasons. Next candidate up is 50 South Sixth (2001), and it's also better than that.

If you've got some secret intel that somebody is going to build another IDS Center here in the next couple of years, I'm willing to wait. Otherwise, this will be a very very nice building that will anchor the north end of the Mall and vastly improve the connection between downtown and the North Loop and the river.

I'm not willing to wait another ten years for that, in the hope that somehow somebody will build us a masterpiece.
Thank you! I couldn't agree more - this block needs to be developed, waiting "for something better" is crazy.
Count me in too! I agree...I don't think the sign is that huge of an issue, especially if it is just a logo....relatively small as far as signage goes. If we had signs limited to logos that size, I don't think I would mind that much. Anyway, completely agree with this.

Multimodal
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby Multimodal » January 8th, 2019, 7:59 pm

As if we don’t have enough forced advertising 24/7 in our lives on every available surface, physical and electronic.

Can’t wait to see Target ads on the e-billboard atop their building.

exiled_antipodean
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby exiled_antipodean » January 8th, 2019, 9:06 pm

Hopefully this will be the end of the silly sign ordinance. Lots of places around the world manage to have business names on towers in neon and survive. Minneapolis will too. Totally precious and provincial.

Didier
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby Didier » January 8th, 2019, 9:44 pm

I mean, do we really think RBC would put this much effort into this project only to cut bait because they can't have a sign that was never allowed to begin with?

BBMplsMN
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby BBMplsMN » January 8th, 2019, 10:30 pm

It's fascinating how dividing the signage issue is on this forum. I find it rather surprising.

My preference is no sign. Actually, very strongly, no sign. One of the things I appreciate about our skyline is the lack of corporate logos at the top of our buildings. It's irrelevant if other cities allow it. It's a design choice that Minneapolis has made.

Now, the porte corchere, I'm fine with.

Oreos&Milk
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby Oreos&Milk » January 9th, 2019, 12:20 am

MNdible wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 3:12 pm
David Greene wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 2:37 pm
In my view, there's no game of chicken. Losing this mediocre development over a sign dispute would be perfectly fine. I'm ok with leaving this block empty for a while in order to get something better.
It's weird that this site still has to carry its 'iconic' baggage. If this is a mediocre development, then... what is everything else that's been built in the last two decades? I mean, this will literally be the best high-rise building built in Minneapolis since at least 2007 (Carlyle), and I'd argue that it's better than that for a number of reasons. Next candidate up is 50 South Sixth (2001), and it's also better than that.

If you've got some secret intel that somebody is going to build another IDS Center here in the next couple of years, I'm willing to wait. Otherwise, this will be a very very nice building that will anchor the north end of the Mall and vastly improve the connection between downtown and the North Loop and the river.

I'm not willing to wait another ten years for that, in the hope that somehow somebody will build us a masterpiece.

I have a feeling it's still going to scream iconic... well.. or at least have it written all over it.

Image

:roll:

NickP
Union Depot
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby NickP » January 9th, 2019, 12:32 am

Maybe just naive hope on my part, but it could be a cool sign that adds to the skyline. When I say this, I’m thinking specifically of the 1st National Bank sign in St Paul. It’s tough for me to think of St Paul without it.

On a silly note, maybe they could put the weather ball on the sign!!!! Lol

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Nathan
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby Nathan » January 9th, 2019, 5:43 am

mnmike wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 7:31 pm
HiawathaGuy wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 5:53 pm
MNdible wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 3:12 pm
It's weird that this site still has to carry its 'iconic' baggage. If this is a mediocre development, then... what is everything else that's been built in the last two decades? I mean, this will literally be the best high-rise building built in Minneapolis since at least 2007 (Carlyle), and I'd argue that it's better than that for a number of reasons. Next candidate up is 50 South Sixth (2001), and it's also better than that.

If you've got some secret intel that somebody is going to build another IDS Center here in the next couple of years, I'm willing to wait. Otherwise, this will be a very very nice building that will anchor the north end of the Mall and vastly improve the connection between downtown and the North Loop and the river.

I'm not willing to wait another ten years for that, in the hope that somehow somebody will build us a masterpiece.
Thank you! I couldn't agree more - this block needs to be developed, waiting "for something better" is crazy.
Count me in too! I agree...I don't think the sign is that huge of an issue, especially if it is just a logo....relatively small as far as signage goes. If we had signs limited to logos that size, I don't think I would mind that much. Anyway, completely agree with this.
It's not that we're interested in waiting for something better as much as we don't need to be held hostage by a corporation to get something built. Our city has a long heritage of not having signage. They've been a part of that city all along they should be willing to accept that.

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Nathan
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby Nathan » January 9th, 2019, 5:44 am

NickP wrote:
January 9th, 2019, 12:32 am
Maybe just naive hope on my part, but it could be a cool sign that adds to the skyline. When I say this, I’m thinking specifically of the 1st National Bank sign in St Paul. It’s tough for me to think of St Paul without it.

On a silly note, maybe they could put the weather ball on the sign!!!! Lol
The sign is pictured in a link down just a few posts back. It's not.

alexschief
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby alexschief » January 9th, 2019, 9:18 am

The porte-cochère problem is the city's fault for not axing the streetcar easement and consigning UP to such a restricted site. The city made that mess, I'm leaning to the developer on that front. Ultimately, I'd rather have a porte-cochère than cars making drop offs directly from Hennepin anyway, and while it's unfortunate, it shouldn't be a dealbreaker to force cars to circle the block. The original proposal, which completely tanked the Washington-Hennepin corner, was a worse alternative. Maybe there's a further design refinement that could solve both issues, but perhaps not.

On the flip side. It's pretty hard to feel sympathetic to UP/RBC on the sign issue. They have known about the city's rules from the start, they clearly forged ahead because they have cynically calculated that they could bully the city into accepting this condition. I don't think the city can give ground and establish the precedent that it can be kicked around like this.

It's unfortunate because the sign issue itself is not really a major problem. The sign won't face the best skyline angle, and I'm not sure a skyline without signs is something so precious in the general scheme of things. I hope there is a compromise available, where the city rejects the proposed sign, but all sides agree on a different, more attractive sign design. Perhaps something more artistic, like an LED neon imitation like some of the existing signs along the river, or a painted or printed sign that is externally illuminated at night.

exiled_antipodean
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby exiled_antipodean » January 9th, 2019, 9:52 am

It's a little weird that the Gold Medal Flour and Grain Belt beer signs are beloved all around, and at least in the case of the Gold Medal Flour sign must have received public money to still be there, but no, we can't have any more.

QuietBlue
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby QuietBlue » January 9th, 2019, 10:18 am

exiled_antipodean wrote:
January 9th, 2019, 9:52 am
It's a little weird that the Gold Medal Flour and Grain Belt beer signs are beloved all around, and at least in the case of the Gold Medal Flour sign must have received public money to still be there, but no, we can't have any more.
Yeah, I have no opinion on the overall merits of this project one way or the other, but the inconsistent attitude we have towards signs around here is strange. Everything vintage and interesting was considered tacky and ugly at one point.

LakeCharles
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby LakeCharles » January 9th, 2019, 10:47 am

I don't care about the sign itself. I do care that RBC has known about this for years and never made a peep until the last minute when they could hold the city hostage.

amiller92
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby amiller92 » January 9th, 2019, 11:50 am

BBMplsMN wrote:
January 8th, 2019, 10:30 pm
It's a design choice that Minneapolis has made.
I read this and then peaked out my office window and read "Foshay" on the top of what was the most prominent building in the Minneapolis skyline from 1929 until 1972 (and then second most for years after that).

You can also read "US Bank" on the stadium bearing that name from miles around. Centre Village has a sign. Thrivent has a sign. If I recall, Target's light up top is sometimes branded (may be wrong about that). And as someone else mentioned, there are hotels.

Kinda seems like the ship sailed already.

Multimodal
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby Multimodal » January 9th, 2019, 2:09 pm

Was the Foshay tower what instigated the no-sign policy? Where did this all start?

David Greene
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC/Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 503'

Postby David Greene » January 9th, 2019, 2:18 pm

I don't really care about the sign much one way or the other, but I do very much care about developers pressuring the city to special-case its rules because developers feels they can do so. Rule 1 of negotiation is to always be willing to walk away. The city should very much be willing to walk away from this and should make that clear. The design is a "meh" for me and while I'm not going to be upset if it's built, we shouldn't think of it as essential to build.


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