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Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 6th, 2015, 6:58 pm
by twincitizen
I've been a fan of the UP proposal all along. If you concede that the Duval proposal was not very likely to happen (or straight up mirage), United Properties was always the best. Tallest, most residential units, excellent street presence that accommodates the streetcar, and a developer with basically unlimited access to capital. The potential height increase is just icing on the cake at this point. That'd be great if they choose to crank it up to 44-48 floors.

Am I the only one who was really intrigued by the KARE 11 TV studio piece of Duval's proposal? I would love to see United consider approaching KARE to include them. Presumably KARE had an interest in being a part of this block, regardless of the developer. Are the Pohlads tied in any way to any of the TV stations in town? They own the 96.3 radio station, but I'm not sure what other media holdings or ties they might have.

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 6th, 2015, 7:32 pm
by aeisenberg
nordeast homer wrote:I'm excited to see this if they add those floors. It's already an attractive design, the lighting and the added height would make it that much better. Hoping this spurs Opus to step it up at the Ritz block now!
I know that design is subjective, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. It looks like poorly stacked blocks. Now with gimmicky LED lights. Am I the only person with serious reservations about this design?

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 6th, 2015, 8:00 pm
by Lancestar2
I always enjoy reading all the comments using different words to simply say the same thing... taller = better.

I still think Mortenson is a superior design a bulky building with residential balconies along Nicollet Ave and a beautiful curved feature along Hennepin Ave. The UT's design have such tiny floors, also it really prolongs they skyway through the 5 floor building and into the podium. Plus the plaza seems pretty disorganized and would have been nice to see a park format instead. Street cars lines that run into the block seem like a waste of space, instead would have been nice to see a nice transit station build into the building next to the street instead. The Mortenson design had building snugged right up against Nicollet allow for retail space. If this UT design building will be the bookend of the Nicollet Mall keep in mind retail won't start until about 2 blocks south. :roll:

Besides the clearly inferior height... any thoughts as to why the Mortenson design was still coming up... short? hm?

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 6th, 2015, 8:15 pm
by Nathan
aeisenberg wrote:
nordeast homer wrote:I'm excited to see this if they add those floors. It's already an attractive design, the lighting and the added height would make it that much better. Hoping this spurs Opus to step it up at the Ritz block now!
I know that design is subjective, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. It looks like poorly stacked blocks. Now with gimmicky LED lights. Am I the only person with serious reservations about this design?
Architecture and Design are subjective... but this is a fun design, it plays at the idea that all buildings are just building blocks. The Duval project was just them in a straight line...

UP's proposal reminds me of this critically acclaimed Herzog and De Meuron Project in Rotterdam.

http://ronaldpuma.files.wordpress.com/2 ... 3-1200.jpg

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 6th, 2015, 9:24 pm
by John
The hotel component will be "The Canopy" :) :
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... d-for.html

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 7th, 2015, 8:29 am
by Record Machine
aeisenberg wrote:
I know that design is subjective, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. It looks like poorly stacked blocks. Now with gimmicky LED lights. Am I the only person with serious reservations about this design?
It feels tacky to me. I preferred the Mortenson design, but what do you do.

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 7th, 2015, 10:43 am
by Nick
Anyway, the reason I was wondering why specifically they were adding eight to twelve stories was because, if you're doing another 100 residential units, presumably that means another 100 parking spaces in the underground ramp on a small block, and I wonder if that has any groundwater implications that close to the river? How deep would a 425 space parking ramp be at that spot? Three or four or five stories under?

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 7th, 2015, 11:16 am
by Silophant
The underground ramp at Marquette Plaza has 232 spaces on approximately one block's worth of space. (Spread out onto two floors, but there's datacenter space, so only about a quarter of P1 is parking, and only about 2/3rds of P2 is.) Since the Nicollet Hotel block is a little smaller, I'd guess they could maybe get 400 spots on two levels of underground parking. I'm also assuming there's geological reasons that neither MP or the library, on adjacent blocks, went down more than two levels.

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 7th, 2015, 11:20 am
by NE_love
Nathan wrote:
aeisenberg wrote:
nordeast homer wrote:I'm excited to see this if they add those floors. It's already an attractive design, the lighting and the added height would make it that much better. Hoping this spurs Opus to step it up at the Ritz block now!
I know that design is subjective, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. It looks like poorly stacked blocks. Now with gimmicky LED lights. Am I the only person with serious reservations about this design?
Architecture and Design are subjective... but this is a fun design, it plays at the idea that all buildings are just building blocks. The Duval project was just them in a straight line...

UP's proposal reminds me of this critically acclaimed Herzog and De Meuron Project in Rotterdam.

http://ronaldpuma.files.wordpress.com/2 ... 3-1200.jpg
Except not nearly as dynamic... I agree with aeisenberg, slap on some lighting in an effort to make less simple. I have not problem with a simple form, but let's not get "blinded by the light." It feels a little, lipstick on a pig. And I can tell you right now that that lighting cost +5 times whatever is in their budget.

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 7th, 2015, 11:21 am
by illman00
Will it be completed in time for the super bowl?

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 7th, 2015, 11:35 am
by Munch'n
With a 2016 start it would be close, It would be awesome if this and the viking ramp apartments were both built.

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 7th, 2015, 12:31 pm
by Nathan
NE_love wrote: And I can tell you right now that that lighting cost +5 times whatever is in their budget.
claim... evidence... warrant...

are you privy to those budgets and costs?

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 9th, 2015, 8:21 am
by NE_love
Nathan wrote:
NE_love wrote: And I can tell you right now that that lighting cost +5 times whatever is in their budget.
claim... evidence... warrant...

are you privy to those budgets and costs?
Just privy to the game. Initial renderings are made by the designers with little to-no concept of cost. They are made to look good and get people on their side (besides representing a design concept). In this case there was also a short 2-3 week time table.

Lighting is always more expensive than it looks and constitutes a large part of value engineering. A recent project I was involved with the contractor budgeted 200k for exterior lighting. The initial scheme, which the project team all loved was close to 1m.

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 9th, 2015, 10:09 am
by Nathan
There's a good post! I understand that lighting goes but I wonder what is of budgets they have and how much the city can demand in order to get what it wants. These are also reasons... length of design time etc that the Duval project probably wouldn't have been built as drawn.

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 9th, 2015, 10:21 am
by mattaudio
Thankfully lighting is something that, with a little foresight in terms of conduit and whatnot, can easily be added incrementally after the fact. #ohwaitwedon'tdothatanymore

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 9th, 2015, 10:30 am
by TTT
Munch'n wrote:With a 2016 start it would be close, It would be awesome if this and the viking ramp apartments were both built.
Is that what the current plan is? A 2016 start??

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 9th, 2015, 10:33 am
by TTT
Wedgeguy wrote:It might be that the 36 is the occupied floors. There maybe a couple of mechanical floors that are not counted, which might bring it to 39 floors that are shown. Time will tell. I'll admit this was my second choice. But I'm still not sure it will really help increase the draw of people to the north end. I HOPE I"M WRONG!!

I hope the Pohlad's will not skimp on the lighting at the end like the last two towers did!!
You'd have to think that with how involved the city is with this project that they would hold United Properties feet to the fire with the lighting scheme. After all, that quite possibly is one of the reasons the city believes this project to be iconic.

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 9th, 2015, 10:40 am
by MN Fats
TTT wrote:
Munch'n wrote:With a 2016 start it would be close, It would be awesome if this and the viking ramp apartments were both built.
Is that what the current plan is? A 2016 start??
That's when the stadium is set to open, presumably by September 2016 when the season starts. The Super Bowl isn't until 2/4/18.

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 9th, 2015, 10:43 am
by TTT
MN Fats wrote:
TTT wrote:
Munch'n wrote:With a 2016 start it would be close, It would be awesome if this and the viking ramp apartments were both built.
Is that what the current plan is? A 2016 start??
That's when the stadium is set to open, presumably by September 2016 when the season starts. The Super Bowl isn't until 2/4/18.
I meant the start of this project, will it not start in 2015?

Re: Nicollet Hotel Block

Posted: February 9th, 2015, 10:49 am
by MN Fats
TTT wrote: I meant the start of this project, will it not start in 2015?
Oh, I see. I misunderstood. MSP Business Journal speculated construction would commence in early 2016. (Last sentence in the article.)

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... l?page=all