Stadium Parking Ramp Development Site - 25 stories / 294'

[TroyGBiv]

sounds like there are "issues" here.. my guess is either the sup doesn't really know or he /she doesn't want to speak about something and get in trouble... The fact is that the Vikings/Wilfs have set out to make this difficult for Ryan and to hopefully take this option from them down the road... It was always a little sketchy to ask a developer to add floors to a ramp at such an early phase prior to them getting their development financing in order... Ryan would have had to pay for this out of pocket (most likely) and developers hate to do that - especially when they are fully invested in a major project right next door...

[HiawathaGuy]

sounds like there are "issues" here.. my guess is either the sup doesn't really know or he /she doesn't want to speak about something and get in trouble... The fact is that the Vikings/Wilfs have set out to make this difficult for Ryan and to hopefully take this option from them down the road... It was always a little sketchy to ask a developer to add floors to a ramp at such an early phase prior to them getting their development financing in order... Ryan would have had to pay for this out of pocket (most likely) and developers hate to do that - especially when they are fully invested in a major project right next door...

I feel like you're mostly right, but might have some of your facts a bit skewed. Ryan has an agreement with the City of Minneapolis for this land. They are legally bound to do something by a certain date, or pay the City. It's a lot to dig back through in that thread, but it's all there. I really wish those wanting things to "happen faster" or assume that some Sup. on site working on a different component of DTE's development would realize this. If/when they decide to build on that lot, it'll be after everything else is done - that was ALWAYS the plan. Assuming there are "issues" because the Sup. being questioned claimed not to know anything goes against the very real agreement Ryan and the City have.

I also don't think the Wilf brothers are somehow trying to sabotage Ryan for this lot. The City granted the air rights to Ryan. Done. If Ryan can't find the financing to build something or chooses not to, then the City will work to find another developer who will build something.

Sometimes it seems many people on this board believe some very crazy conspiracy theories.

[grant1simons2]

Exactly!, but I asked 3 times, I even talked about the images, but was told that it wasn't in the plans. I really wanted to pull it up on my phone for them to look at, but was afraid they'd kick me out. (This was about 2 weeks ago.)

The last document I read claimed that Ryan had until December 31st, 2015 to file their plans with the city. If they did not do so, they could renew for another year. I've yet to see either.

[VikingFaninMaryland]

Exactly!, but I asked 3 times, I even talked about the images, but was told that it wasn't in the plans. I really wanted to pull it up on my phone for them to look at, but was afraid they'd kick me out. (This was about 2 weeks ago.)

The last document I read claimed that Ryan had until December 31st, 2015 to file their plans with the city. If they did not do so, they could renew for another year. I've yet to see either.

I don't want to go back and dredge up the specific times and dates of performance under which Ryan was granted the development rights associated with the MSFA parking ramp, but they won those rights based on guarantees of a revenue stream in excess of what others promised based on a development plan joint venture with a Chicago developer (I think) that was akin to vaporware.

As the project evaporated, they added a intervening condition not in the agreement - or someone did, so that it could be suggested that efforts failed because they could not add parking to the ramp and then blamed the Vikings even though the owner and decision-maker was a state entity - the MSFA (not the Vikings). When it became clear that Ryan 1) had no project to offer, 2) had none in the pipeline, 3) made it clear that whatever was to be developed would now come an the inchoate future, and 4) would not bring in anything close to the revenue stream promised when winning those rights against competing bidders, those development rights should have been opened to a re-bid.

The iron for development in Downtown East is hot now. One can never know when the window for such development will close. As it happens, the Vikings had a project, a plan, a construction team, and was willing to put immediate cash down, yet the city officials allowed Ryan to retain the rights under the much reduced condition that they develop the property in the indistinct future capable of generating a reduced revenue stream.

As of now, there does not appear to be a project in the pipeline and, assuming Grant to be correct (and there is no reason to think he's not), a year out from that extension and they missed yet another deadline costing the City of MPLS millions in potential lost revenue.

I recall from an earlier discussion that Grant challenged my point on the Wilf plan owing to the fact that the Wilf plan was inferior and I sent in a picture of the that plan to ask what was wrong with it (and reasonable people could argue yeahs and nays of such a discussion). But the Wilf's had a plan, they were willing and able to execute, it was reasonably close to shovel ready (with completion before the Super Bowl), and yet, as of now, there is nothing.

I still think the City should open the rights to rebidding. Something is better than nothing. And, if the Wilf's won it, one could always use the processes the elicit changes in the design.

[HiawathaGuy]

Exactly!, but I asked 3 times, I even talked about the images, but was told that it wasn't in the plans. I really wanted to pull it up on my phone for them to look at, but was afraid they'd kick me out. (This was about 2 weeks ago.)

The last document I read claimed that Ryan had until December 31st, 2015 to file their plans with the city. If they did not do so, they could renew for another year. I've yet to see either.

Minneapolis chooses Ryan over Vikings for air rights
http://finance-commerce.com/2014/09/min ... z42VmrElJz

... "The city also now has options to buy back the property if Ryan doesn’t submit a development site plan within six months of either approval of parking spaces needed for the apartment project or Dec. 31, 2015, whichever comes first.

Ryan has until the start of tower construction to close on the property, a date currently set to be no later than Dec. 31, 2015. The developer has options to extend that date, but an extension could trigger the city buyback." ...

Perhaps someone should reach out to Council member Frey.

[Qhaberl]

So a few months have come and gone. Whats with the parking ramp air rights. Does anyone actually own those rights anymore. I thaught that the reason that ramp was approved was because of the devolopment above it. Whats going on? I think the market is definitely there.


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[grant1simons2]

This is one of those projects that if anyone on here had information, they'd probably have shared it by now. It's really just a mystery at this point. I remember someone on here said that they talked to someone at Ryan, and the Ryan contact claimed that Ryan is done in DTE. Just adds more to the story though.

[Qhaberl]

Iit would be cool to see something built over the ramp. Who currently owns those air rights?


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[HiawathaGuy]

Iit would be cool to see something built over the ramp. Who currently owns those air rights?

You're confusing things here. I would encourage you to read back through this thread more, to better familiarize yourself with this block. No one will be "building above" the MSFA ramp, I want to clear that up right away. Ryan wanted to build above it and it was denied. The sliver lot facing the LRT Platform block is where something will be built.

If anyone has a connection to Council member Frey, perhaps they can reach out to him?

[Qhaberl]

It's very possible that I am confusing things. Can you explain them a little more clearly? I don't have time to go back and read through 45 pages of posts. That's a lot. Can you summarize the things that have happened up until now?


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[Qhaberl]

I just did a search on Google maps. It doesn't even show a silver ramp.


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[mattaudio]

From left to right:



-New MSFA Ramp (this thread was primarily speculation about air rights on this thread, originally Ryan had planned a tower above it).
-"Sliver" or liner parcel (at this point, the only realistic development on this block).
-4th Street South
-"Downtown East Ramp" which is underground parking with the concrete lid at street level. Built by the city when the LRT cut through the block, then sold to Alatus which planned to build on the air rights. At this point, it's becoming a part of the stadium plaza, though I was suggesting it gets some sort of park-supporting structure as well.

[Qhaberl]

Ok. I understand now.


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[VikingFaninMaryland]

I won't beat a dead horse but, a year back when it was clear that Ryan could not convert on its plan to develop the air-rights, the Vikings came forward with a request to re-open bidding in circumstances where they had an actual proposal, design, and contractor (M.A. Mortensen) ready to go. They even offered more up-front revenue to the City of Minneapolis. They were derided and denied.

[grant1simons2]

Mortenson's rejected proposal:

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... posal.html

Yeah, glad the City went with Ryan for this location.


I think this could be a cool addition elsewhere downtown though. (but with more glass)

[grant1simons2]

Or...

I want to know what the mysterious building is that's located across the light-rail station where the current medical examiner building is.

And then there was a speculation about this tower,



http://hpaurban.com/portfolio-item/block-70-tower/

Just so everyone is up to date on some of the proposals we've had on this site.

[VikingFaninMaryland]

All caught up except that, as reporting turned out, the Ryan plan never extended beyond the preliminary stages of rounding up partners, who never came on board and walked away as opposed to the Mortensen / Viking plan that was actually ready to go.

In the same BizJournal article, there was the more agreeable picture as well,



And even for those who were not as impressed as could be, there is always the notion that a project in hand is better than a handful on the developers table. In development, especially in downtown cores, opportunities that seem easily deferrable often end up being lost opportunities when not acted on.

Apologies, I couldn't figure out how to make the image larger.

[grant1simons2]

Time machine article,

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... -ryan.html

One of the bigger reasons the Ryan proposal was picked was because it would provide $400,000 annually ($4,000 a unit) as stated by Frey.

[Qhaberl]

This may be a stupid question. I have been to be walking in the area today. What is that narrow rectangular piece of land just south of the ramp?


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[VikingFaninMaryland]

That would be the front portion of the "air-rights" to the ramp.

From this August StarTribune article (http://www.startribune.com/plan-calls-f ... 273268911/) Ryan agreed to pay $5.6 million for the air rights but, upon realizing, as Ryan itself stated that the “hotel portion of the project is ‘unfeasible’,” was allowed to reduce its tender to $3 million. Among other things, this means that the $400,000 annually / $4,000 per unit was vapor-ware. The lost revenue was slated to pay for, among other things, the park development and related activities.

While one can argue the viability of Ryan's numbers from the beginning - at the initial bid phase (I won't), one need only point out that when the period of production came up, they not only could not make that number, they had no ability to demonstrate a replacement protect and reduced - and were allowed to reduce - their number to $3 million. Recall, the Mortensen / Viking proposal offered $4.6 million; they had a genuine argument for rebidding. If memory serves, even the City Council called Ryan's move a "bait and switch" before, of course, letting them get away with it.

From the September 2014 Finance & Commerce article - http://finance-commerce.com/2014/09/min ... ir-rights/ , the Vikings and Mortensen tried to reopen the bid process and offered $8.1 million up front to do so - up from their original $4.6 million. The city could certainly have worked with the Mortensen and the Vikings on final design. Ryan clearly did not have a project in the hopper, and one must ask why the City of Minneapolis was so gratuitous in slapping the Mortensen / Viking proposal down - and certainly at least ask why the project was not opened to rebid. Right now there is nothing and no prospects on the horizon (as far as I know).

That was an awful lost of cash-on-the-barrelhead to turn down under such circumstances - and in the context of an active construction site no less. It actually surprises me that this doesn’t raise any concerns on cites such at this.

[I’ll stop here and won't delve into the irrational dislike of the Wilfs and how it is costing MPLS $ millions in lost tax revenue where a patch of grass now sits]

Better image (and note, it includes the foot-bridge) -