Stadium Parking Ramp Development Site

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
kregger22

Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby kregger22 » March 10th, 2014, 12:14 pm

With the value this project could bring, and knowing what Ryan is bringing to the table, you'd think Mortenson would go back to the drawing table with something better. I will be the first to admit I don't understand what might go into that, but, what I do understand is a shorter building with a Marriott as opposed to a flagship hotel from Radisson that has $38mn less dollars being invested doesn't seem like the better option.

talindsay
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby talindsay » March 10th, 2014, 1:29 pm

Funny how most of us will agree in principle that having a single company master-plan an entire neighborhood is a Bad Thing, and yet the minute Ryan's proposal looks bigger, the attention is on that. I'd kind of like to see somebody other than Ryan develop this so that we get more hands into the design of this area. It would be nice if the city were to actually *strive* to get different sites developed by different parties so that it doesn't feel like they've just selected a contractor for each meta-project.

City slicker

Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby City slicker » March 10th, 2014, 2:15 pm

150 hotel rooms is not enough in my opinion- I think the 300 hotel room Mortenson plan mixed with the Ryan proposal 272 or whatever residence would be the perfect mix.

Viktor Vaughn
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Viktor Vaughn » March 10th, 2014, 2:23 pm

To me this feels a lot like the Lowertown Stadium. Ryan was given the contract outright. Then when folks howled in protest, the put the contract to competitive bid...and surprise.. Ryan got the work. It probably helped that they had been working on the project with StP for years at that point.

This air rights development technically had an open RFP, but it's probably instructive that the only bids were from inside developers already working onsite. Mortensen didn't even bother to pitch their bid. I'm sure other developers saw the inside baseball going on so they didn't even try to compete, or didn't even have time to put a proposal together.

It's as if this was all worked out ahead of time behind closed doors. I have no inside information, but the whole deal rings of cronyism.

Wedgeguy
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Wedgeguy » March 10th, 2014, 2:24 pm

They are not building a convention hotel, they are building a more boutique concept in which 150 would be more in line with the number of guests that would frequent that concept. You don't want to over build a new concept.

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Nick
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Nick » March 10th, 2014, 3:43 pm

Viktor Vaughn wrote:It's as if this was all worked out ahead of time behind closed doors. I have no inside information, but the whole deal rings of cronyism.
I'm usually pro-conspiracy, but isn't it possible that the lack of out-of-town developer interest in this site is related to the lack of out-of-town developer interest in all of the other vacant surface lots downtown? Except, you know, Magellan, but they're part of one of the proposals.

Viktor Vaughn
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Viktor Vaughn » March 10th, 2014, 4:11 pm

Yeah Nick, it makes sense that a project like this would be developed by someone with local experience and knowledge of the market. I didn't say anything about out-of-town interest -- there's plenty of local developers, but few are so politically connected.

I made sure to specify in my comment I was disparaging this local company based on a feeling, without actual evidence, but it's hardly a stretch to suspect that Ryan views this as part of their greater project and the RFP was more of a formality to check that box for legal and good governance purposes.

From what I can tell, their proposal looks good. I hope DTE get's all this investment. From the outside, it just doesn't look like a very competitive process.

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Nick
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Nick » March 10th, 2014, 6:50 pm

Yeah you specifically didn't, sorry, probably shouldn't have quoted you in the post. I was just speaking generally about the armchair quarterbacking on downtown projects.

Silophant
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Silophant » March 10th, 2014, 8:35 pm

In general, I agree that uncompetitive bidding processes and single developers building entire neighborhoods is bad. But, in this specific case, where Ryan is already building the ramp beneath the building, I'd have no real problem with them just being given the rights to develop the top, or with winning a flawed bidding process. Just seems more efficient that way. Especially since we've (sort of, blurrily) seen the proposal now, and it looks good, and will probably get better with Magellan involved.

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Nathan
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Nathan » March 10th, 2014, 8:57 pm

at least they followed procedure... cough... st paul, saints... I'm looking at you...

rcrades
Block E
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby rcrades » March 11th, 2014, 7:36 am

talindsay wrote:Funny how most of us will agree in principle that having a single company master-plan an entire neighborhood is a Bad Thing, and yet the minute Ryan's proposal looks bigger, the attention is on that. I'd kind of like to see somebody other than Ryan develop this so that we get more hands into the design of this area. It would be nice if the city were to actually *strive* to get different sites developed by different parties so that it doesn't feel like they've just selected a contractor for each meta-project.
Not that I disagree, but Mortenson is building the stadium. So in terms of dollars, Ryan still is developing less than Mortenson in DTE.

talindsay
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby talindsay » March 11th, 2014, 9:29 am

Hmmm, that's a fair point I suppose. The stadium itself is so unlike the rest of the developments that I wasn't thinking about that, but it's true.

nstudenski
Metrodome
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby nstudenski » March 11th, 2014, 9:34 am

I'm surprised a larger hotel hasn't been proposed. Especially with a possible Super Bowl in 2018.

kregger22

Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby kregger22 » March 11th, 2014, 9:37 am

So should we expect to see some vision of what Mortenson is thinking by this Friday?

nickmgray
Union Depot
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby nickmgray » March 11th, 2014, 10:38 am

Developer are not going to propose a larger hotel just because Minneapolis might be chosen for the Super Bowl a few years down the road. hotels are very expensive to operate (I was in the industry for more than half a decade) and there's not a huge up side even when business is good. The hotel market in Minneapolis has always been fairly stable, but that's because all the new hotels we get are fairly small. Adding a new hotel with fewer than 200 rooms does not have a huge impact on the market.

It's better to add 150 new hotel rooms ever other year than 300 new rooms at one time. One other issue to consider with hotels are nearby amenities. While we'd like to think that having restaurants scattered across DTE is important for residential growth, it's even more important for successful hotels. People coming to town on business would prefer to stay closer to the downtown core simply because they will have more options within a 2-3 block radius than they would at this location.

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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby Silophant » March 11th, 2014, 10:51 am

nstudenski wrote:I'm surprised a larger hotel hasn't been proposed. Especially with a possible Super Bowl in 2018.
Remember that there's 2-3 more hotel proposals within a couple blocks of this site. If the Super Bowl happens, I'm sure they'll go through.

John
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby John » March 11th, 2014, 10:59 am

I'm sure this hotel is being very specifically targeted to the teams and other users of the stadium throughout the year who want direct and convenient access. It's really not geared towards businessmen, conventioneers etc. 150 rooms sounds about right for that market. In addition , I think many of the apartments will be leased out to people involved in professional sports, etc. who don't live here full time and call somewhere else their permanent home.

go4guy
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby go4guy » March 11th, 2014, 11:22 am

John wrote:I'm sure this hotel is being very specifically targeted to the teams and other users of the stadium throughout the year who want direct and convenient access. It's really not geared towards businessmen, conventioneers etc. 150 rooms sounds about right for that market. In addition , I think many of the apartments will be leased out to people involved in professional sports, etc. who don't live here full time and call somewhere else their permanent home.
Im not so sure about that. Most of the Vikings operations are still at Winter Park. I am sure players and personel will prefer to live in the Edina/EP area instead where they are 6 days a week versus the once every 2 weeks at the dome during the season. I think they will be a lot more successful gearing towards the Wells Fargo complex as well as the proximity to the light rail stop.

DTSB
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby DTSB » March 11th, 2014, 11:42 am

I would imagine WF would also want to use some hotel rooms for business travelers to their offices. I'm not sure how many rooms they'd need, but Ameriprise wanted to buy all of the Ivy hotel rooms for that purpose.

go4guy
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Re: Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development

Postby go4guy » March 11th, 2014, 11:56 am

DTSB wrote:I would imagine WF would also want to use some hotel rooms for business travelers to their offices. I'm not sure how many rooms they'd need, but Ameriprise wanted to buy all of the Ivy hotel rooms for that purpose.
Did they want to buy the rooms, or the unsold condos? I cannot remember how that all went down.


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