365 Nicollet (334' - 30 stories)

[TroyGBiv]

Silophant - what a great point about the east west alignment! The library was designed to have a main street bisecting it and it creates a very interesting urban sightline. Dynamic perspectives create urban excitement. I hope the city does have success in shaping this project more.

[BigIdeasGuy]

I know why Opus proposed what it proposed and honestly I like the design of the tower but I feel like we are getting a used Pontiac Grand Am of a project when this block has the ability to be a brand new Aston Martin. It's underwhelming, disappointing, and just sad all the way around.

[m b p]

well... I like it.

I do agree that the parking podium needs to be less significant/visible.

It would be great if it was taller. However, I accept it for what it is... and I like the effect they achieve with the spacing of the decks.

I wouldn't want it to look like the library... or take cues from anywhere else. Let it stand as it's own building... be interesting on it's own.

That area is quickly filling in with residential buildings. They should all be unique and compliment each other... not mimic each other.

[nBode]

Oh, I don't at all think it should look like the library. But it shouldn't ignore it. Thinking that a building's relationship to the city ends at its lot borders is just inaccurate. An example of this is everyone's desire for height and maintaining our pyramidal skyline. It's very important how buildings relate to one another. Otherwise we're left with a disorganized mess and a worse experience.

[martykoessel]

Ok - looked at the proposed design fronting Nicollet again. Lots of glass fronting the Mall, but one entryway? Do these developers NOT read/listen to studies/experts on how to create a successful building design at the street-level in an urban environment? To be successful and to create an exciting street presence - the more individual storefronts/separate entrances the better. I hope the city gets on them for this!

Reminds me of the Dunn Bros. area of the library. So many entrances, so many "Do not enter" signs.

A quick word in defense of the Dunn Bros shop in the Central Library. It's fronted by huge windows, and none of the doors opening directly onto the plaza affords a vestibule. Because of these Library design issues, it's impossible to keep the store at an appropriate temperature on all but the most perfect days if the any of the doors to the plaza are left open.

[TroyGBiv]

I didn't mean that it should look like the library (though it looking like a Pelli building is not bad) I meant that it should relate to the library and other buildings around it. Many years ago I was at a lecture by Cesar Pelli as he revealed the Norwest bank building. One thing that he talked about both at that time and then years later when he was here for another speaking engagement was that he designed all of those set backs on the tower to relate to the buildings downtown. He didn't do it for the lighting codes like it would have been designed in Manhattan - he did it to relate to our skyline by acknowledging it's position within its setting. The power of this is very subtle but is really effective and in part makes this a favorite building to residents and to visitors. The power of sightlines and vistas in a city are an important part of what makes it great... Think of Chicago and the incredible views as you walk around.

[grant1simons2]

My position on this is that I wish they'd lower the podium to a 4 story instead of 6-7, so you can see the overhang of the library from Marquette and maybe even 2nd. But I do think it's quite funny that you guys are getting a bit upset over a building being blocked by a new highrise... *cough* NIMBYs positions on the Nye rise blocking the church views *cough*. I was just in Chicago. There are a lot of blocked views so I'm not 100% sure what you're talking about.

[nBode]

I don't think anyone is upset about it "being blocked." What I'm upset about, at least, is the way it in no way relates to the library (or really anything around it, but the library is its most prominent context). Literally all I want is for there to be an acknowledgement. This isn't about sightlines at all. It's about context and good architecture.

[trigonalmayhem]

So ... it's another ~30 story building in the heart of downtown? With two on the next block and another planned for the Nicollet Hotel block? It seems like the only types of building we get here are six floors with underground parking or 30ish floors with a big ol' parking podium.

The design itself looks nice, albeit a little underwhelming. At least it doesn't look like someone chopped the top 10+ floors off another design to make it (Nic on Fifth I'm looking at you). But can someone seriously at least push it to the 40s for floor count? If there's enough demand to build a ton of ~30 floor buildings, isn't there enough to go higher with a few of them too? It seems like the local development community is dreadfully conservative when it comes to most of their projects.

[TTT]

So ... it's another ~30 story building in the heart of downtown? With two on the next block and another planned for the Nicollet Hotel block? It seems like the only types of building we get here are six floors with underground parking or 30ish floors with a big ol' parking podium.

The design itself looks nice, albeit a little underwhelming. At least it doesn't look like someone chopped the top 10+ floors off another design to make it (Nic on Fifth I'm looking at you). But can someone seriously at least push it to the 40s for floor count? If there's enough demand to build a ton of ~30 floor buildings, isn't there enough to go higher with a few of them too? It seems like the local development community is dreadfully conservative when it comes to most of their projects.

Agreed.

[John]

So ... it's another ~30 story building in the heart of downtown? With two on the next block and another planned for the Nicollet Hotel block? It seems like the only types of building we get here are six floors with underground parking or 30ish floors with a big ol' parking podium.

It's not going to make Nicollet Mall a "must see" destination or reinforce it as major focal point of downtown that is absolutely certain! I strongly doubt any retail other than a restaurant at the street level will be included in both The Ritz and UP projects. That said, I do think they're pretty decent infill projects that will increase density in a positive yet sort of nondescript and neutral way.

I don't' know, but my thinking about Nicollet Mall is changing with these new projects (which are the final vacant parcels to be built on). Perhaps the desire for Nicollet Mall to be the premier retail street and focal point of downtown is an archaic urban planning concept from the 60's and 70's which we should really let go of. With the booming North Loop and DTE the dynamics have dramatically changed.

[TroyGBiv]

Good point John - Retail has changed a lot since the early days of the mall. It may be better to not try to force retail to the far edges on the mall. This is something to think about.

[Wedgeguy]

Again, Opus does not know what we have understood for the last 5 or more years that an active mall with lots of retail are paramount on this block. Shows that they have they head in the sand or elsewhere. Shows why Nic 5 is such a dud on the mall.

[acs]

The whole thing screams "build it cheap, build it quickly, make fast money off this boom now and let the city deal with the legacy". At least UP had the courtesy to bury their parking, yet Opus one block away and in full control of the property are too cheap to. What really galls me is that the city had to fight for even the token design improvements along the mall that we got, so just imagine what opus and other developers would do to downtown if given a completely free reign. This is the McMansion of apartment buildings.

[twincitizen]

I do think any hopes of bringing another department store should be let go for a number of reasons. Online shopping, the general decline of large department stores vs. the rise of specialty brands/retailers, etc. A few thousand new (wealthy) residents won't reverse that sea change. Another angle to that argument is that Rosedale, Southdale, and MOA are really not that far from downtown. If you live on the NE side of the river, Rosedale is absolutely quicker/easier. If you live in SW, Southdale is the obvious choice. And if you don't have a car, there's always the Blue Line to MOA. Heck, in most metro areas the central city is much larger than 55 sq. mi. - those malls would be inside Minneapolis proper. Department store retailing in city centers is dead, aside from the largest metros which have a massive downtown population and/or throngs of tourists. We have neither. Let it go. Every time someone mentions an REI downtown I cringe. Not going to happen. They already have a new-ish flagship store...it's at 494 & Lyndale. As for other large format stores opening "flagship" locations downtown, I find that extremely unlikely due to MOA's presence and dominance of that retail segment.

That said, I do think that this development should include a similar amount of retail to the Walkway development in Uptown (>24,000 sf), as discussed on the previous page. This site should be able to support at least one large restaurant and some smaller retail not currently represented in the area. I think there is still a lot of room for non-department store retailing downtown (more stores like Express, etc. could open downtown locations).

[David Greene]

Literally all I want is for there to be an acknowledgement. This isn't about sightlines at all. It's about context and good architecture.

You have to admit your statement here is pretty generic. The comment about Chicago and setbacks does sound like a view-blocking concern. What are some ideas to illustrate what you mean?

[nBode]

You have to admit your statement here is pretty generic. The comment about Chicago and setbacks does sound like a view-blocking concern. What are some ideas to illustrate what you mean?

You're right, I'm doing a terrible job of articulating here. Hang on...

EDIT: Okay. Let's look at the Central Library first. The library is designed with a central atrium cutting through the building, creating a substantial axis. This axis is weighted, with a clear front and back end. The front end is wider, and opens to the city by facing the more prominent pedestrian street, Nicollet. The axis here is further projected out into the city by the two wings of the building and by the cantilevered roof overhang. This creates an experience similar to someone holding out their arms to initiate and embrace. I think we can all agree that the Central Library is one of the signature buildings in Minneapolis, designed by César Pelli.

With the current Opus proposal, this invitational embrace offered by the library is responded by a turned back. The Opus tower possesses no elements which respond to the library's most significant and striking element: its 5 story central atrium. The atrium clearly extends into the public realm of Nicollet Mall. But on the other side its fingers are being chopped off with this design. The Opus design is horizontally asymmetrical, like the library, but it is asymmetrical on a different plane which clashes with the asymmetry of the library's axis. This creates a terrible and awkward permanent interaction between the two buildings.

I think a similar example of this awareness of context comes with the imminent redevelopment of the TCF Bank site beside the Foshay. I think we are all in agreement that, as a signature building in Minneapolis, the Foshay deserves a neighbor which acknowledges that significance and responds to it kindly and graciously as a newcomer. I firmly believe the same care should be taken with this Ritz Block development.

It has been suggested that the entire site alignment be turned 90°. This is one approach which, if the two phases could be aligned with the axis created by the library, could create an appropriate composition. If this were done (actually, even if it weren't), a small plaza could be created across from the library, cutting into the site in response to the strongly projected front door of the library. This example is minimally disruptive to the current Opus design, but respects the site's context beside the library and would also serve to break up the long, continuous Nicollet Mall facing and create a more engaging public realm.

I hope this has done something to explain what I mean. Thanks everyone for your patience.

[David Greene]

That's great, thanks for sharing your thoughts! I've learned something about architecture today.

[TroyGBiv]

nBode I agree 100% - This was how I saw it as well - but your language is really great! This issue is important enough that I hope the city pushes this kind of design change.

[John]

^^^Nbode, Please send your thoughtful comments to the city Planning Commission and Jacob Frey.