Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

[nasa35]

According to SkyscraperPage.com database, Nic on Fifth will be 307 feet tall , and Skyscape is 291 feet.

That was when it was 33 floors I believe.

[John]

According to SkyscraperPage.com database, Nic on Fifth will be 307 feet tall , and Skyscape is 291 feet.

That was when it was 33 floors I believe.

No, They list the floor count at 26 stories, and roof at 307 feet. http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=98050

[mnmike]

The original height was 365...the new official height is 288 feet...at least that seems to be the most official number I have seen.

[kregger22]

Like most people I like height, and would be happy with just 1 foot taller than Skyscape.

[MotorCity2TwinCities]

Webcam: http://oxblue.com/open/opus/nicollet

[min-chi-cbus]

Very cool view! Sad to still see snow though!

[twincitizen]

With all of this development basically on top of the Nicollet Mall LRT Station, I wouldn't mind seeing the station get some upgrades. Completely covered/protected, more light, more/better art, etc. Even better to remove the traffic through lane and widen the platform. I mean, if we were really looking ahead, the Met Council could have granted Opus a few bucks to make the Nic underground station ready. Not to build the actual infrastructure but to do the very least as to not eliminate the possibility 20 years from now.

For being the busiest (or 2nd?) station on the line, it is pretty barebones no frills.

[ztr421]

Even better to remove the traffic through lane and widen the platform.

I drive downtown every day and for some reason have made the mistake a few times of taking 5th, passing by this station, Soo Line Bldg, etc. I know there are ramps and other parking that need 5th to provide access, but man, this is one messed up street for traffic. It would probably be a mess, but they should totally think about just closing it and figuring out other solutions for those ramps that need it.

[MNdible]

It would probably be a mess, but they should totally think about just closing it and figuring out other solutions for those ramps that need it.

Solutions, such as? I know for a fact that they spent a lot of time thinking about this alignment. It's not a simple matter of moving a garage door from one side of the building to the other.

[woofner]

The structure of the Self Park ramp between Nicollet & Hennepin is pretty clearly visible from the exterior, and it sure looks like they could close the 5th St access points and just use the 4th St ones. It might be annoying at rush hour, but it really seems possible. There doesn't seem to be another entrance to the Gaviidae ramp, though. Probably quite a burden to require them to retrofit that.

[PhilmerPhil]

I'm pretty sure I've said this before about 5th St., but what about creating a limited access woonerf type scenario. Shared space could work if it were limited only to cars entering and exiting the ramps. There is something somewhat similar to what I am describing already taking place by the Guthrie. MoZaic also uses something like this to an extent for its parking ramp. Removing curbs and perhaps resurfacing the public ROW with pavers or something other than simple concrete/asphalt could be an easy way to pedestrianize this space without banning cars.

[twincitizen]

Right, but there are stretches that don't have garage entrances, yet 5th St is still there. There are segments that could and should be closed to discourage through traffic on 5th. You think the train tracks would be enough, but people are dumb and do weird things.

In segments that do need parking ramp access and/or truck deliverly access, I think Phil's suggestion of the Woonerf / shared space is worth exploring. Especially on the blocks with stations. Warehouse District Station, for example, does NOT need a traffic lane.

[MNdible]

Yes, I'd think that you're both right.

Doing what you're suggesting to the Self Park ramp seems doable, although the owner would likely suggest that it diminishes the utility of their ramp and therefore constitutes a "taking", so in addition to the physical costs to make the changes to the ramp circulation, the city would also likely need to make a cash payout to the owner of the ramp by reducing the value of their property.

I think that some of the other buildings on this stretch also depend on 5th for deliveries and loading as well.

And I'd agree that given the limited amount of traffic that needs to be on these stretches that a Woonerf type solution seems appropriate.

[Nick]

IMG_2917 by UrbanMSP, on Flickr


IMG_2918 by UrbanMSP, on Flickr

[TroyGBiv]

I agree that 5th should just be a transit street. When Central begins running in 2014 it will almost double the LRT traffic, then adding Southwest in 2016-7 again that must add even more trains or at least longer trains. Then Boutineau is looking very likely and that pulls from the north west ... I can't imagine how 5th street could support anything but all those trains.

[mulad]

Southwest and Bottineau shouldn't really make the trains any longer or more frequent, since they'll be run-through extensions of the Green and Blue lines, respectively. I'm suspecting that the already-built segments of track will be the busiest portions, and the Southwest and Bottineau extensions will be relatively lightly traveled, but we'll have to see.

[Andrew_F]

Presumably SW and Bottineau will increase ridership on the existing portions of the Blue and Green lines, hopefully resulting in frequency increases.

[TWA]

^^ I would definitely assume ridership across the network would increase.

Fun fact (says wikipedia...) the Hiawatha has the 6th highest daily boardings/mile of any LRT system in the country. Granted it's only one line, but I think that makes it even more impressive.

Wonder how the new lines would add train traffic to downtown though.

[stock345]

If someone lives in Eden prairie, and works in St. Paul, they may take the southwest corridor and then the green line.

[MSPtoMKE]

That will all be the same line. The Southwest Corridor will be an extension of the Green Line from St. Paul. There will of course still be transfers between the lines, just not in that case. Some hypothetical trips between stations on different lines will actually require a fair amount of backtracking, and may be better served by a more direct bus.

Bringing this more into the subject of this development; while there won't be many more trains on 5th St. beyond what is added next year with the first phase of the Green Line, the stations will see more ridership. Nicollet Mall Station, in particular, could get very crowded with the full buildout of light rail in four directions, imagine roughly four times the crowd waiting for a train during the PM rush hour. I think someone mentioned the possibility of an addition platform along the sidewalk, which may be needed sometime in the future. Some people suggested that Nicollet Mall and Hennepin Ave stations could have been built as one station between the two, but it would have to be huge in order to handle all the future ridership from two stations.