Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
User avatar
TommyT
Target Field
Posts: 572
Joined: August 13th, 2013, 9:21 am

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby TommyT » September 18th, 2014, 8:50 am

Also, if you want a terrible lobby go eat at Marche and check out Lime's. It definitely leaves a lot to be desired IMHO.

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4761
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby David Greene » September 18th, 2014, 9:59 am

TommyT wrote:Also, if you want a terrible lobby go eat at Marche and check out Lime's. It definitely leaves a lot to be desired IMHO.
I stopped in at Marche just to see what it was about and maybe get a coffee. The looks I got from people made me feel distinctly unwelcome, like I had entered a private space of the building. Even had a concierge say "hello," as it were.

IllogicalJake
Target Field
Posts: 529
Joined: January 30th, 2014, 9:03 am

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby IllogicalJake » September 18th, 2014, 10:16 am

David Greene wrote:
TommyT wrote:Also, if you want a terrible lobby go eat at Marche and check out Lime's. It definitely leaves a lot to be desired IMHO.
I stopped in at Marche just to see what it was about and maybe get a coffee. The looks I got from people made me feel distinctly unwelcome, like I had entered a private space of the building. Even had a concierge say "hello," as it were.
The Nic's lobby area feels the same to me. The Nic doesn't look anything like a building I'm allowed to enter unless I'm a resident, which I really hate on Nicollet Mall. I'm hoping that changes as more retail opens.
i talk too much. web dev, downtown. admin @ tower.ly

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
Posts: 3785
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 6:59 am

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby Wedgeguy » September 18th, 2014, 3:10 pm

The reason that the Soo Line was brought up was to compare it with the Nic skyway level. Nic skyway dark and foreboding, while the Soo Line's is bright and airy. Skyway to ground floor is integrated in the Soo Line, where the Nic's feels like and after thought. While I prefer the Soo Line's layout. Their color palette or lack of, I'm not a fan of the white and aluminum when the rest of the build screams for more muted metal and a cream terrazzo floor to the stark white. Personal taste for sure. The Nic's skyway is a dark foil like wall paper that does nothing to brighten up this level of the building. But I do like the fact that the Soo Line uses their windows to their advantage where the glass walls on the cafe allow light into the rest of the skyway level which is on the north side of the building. Nic used sheet rock to block off all the natural light that could have come into the skyway on both retail sections.

Finally figured out why I'm uncomfortable with the street level of Nic. The black painted metal trim with the dark tinted windows, just does not feel welcoming. Maybe once there is retail and lights in the stores it will feel more welcoming. But the black just does not do it for me. The dark gray and black louvers on the parking decks also make the building feel cold. There should be windows on the skyway level looking over Hennepin. Instead it is a long dark tunnel of sheet rock. What ever happened to the Opus that brought up fresh designs like the 5th Street Towers with all the natural lit skyways. Again the podium section of this tower gets a failing grade from me personally.

grant1simons2
IDS Center
Posts: 4301
Joined: February 8th, 2014, 11:33 pm
Location: Marcy-Holmes

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby grant1simons2 » September 18th, 2014, 3:19 pm

It just opened. Like literally 6 days ago. Buildings decide to change a lot of the time. Just please keep that in mind

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
Posts: 3785
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 6:59 am

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby Wedgeguy » September 18th, 2014, 3:41 pm

grant1simons2 wrote:It just opened. Like literally 6 days ago. Buildings decide to change a lot of the time. Just please keep that in mind
You can pay to have it designed right the first time, or you can pay to have to fixed over and over again until you finally get it right. Apparently the people designing this building were not from the land of skyways. Long blank corridors are for old building where you are just making it work. I would expect a new building with a skyway to be design to have an inviting skyway and have a skyway to street connection that does not feel so separated. Getting windows onto the skyway level now facing Hennepin will be a costly redo. Again the podium levels of this building fails miserably. Have BIG doubts that Opus can give us an IDS II experience with a top level buildings after see this project. It will be a maze of gerbil tubes connecting the buildings instead of a well design grouping and atrium that helps connect the building and the skyways to the streets.

Archiapolis
Foshay Tower
Posts: 818
Joined: November 2nd, 2012, 8:59 am

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby Archiapolis » September 19th, 2014, 8:10 am

IllogicalJake wrote:
Wedgeguy wrote:I think the Soo Line's lobby and skyway maybe looked fine on paper, but it is a bit too over the top and does not really work well with the historic aspect of the building.
You keep using "historic aspect of the building" to defend why it looks bad, and I honestly have no idea what you mean. Yes, it's a historic building. And it was also gutted completely inside by the office tenants before hand. So I'm not sure if your references to historic means you'd rather see more things restored (they restored all that they possibly could, and I can go into more detail on that) or just that the type of decor should match an old office building (which I'm not even sure what that would be...)

Again, it's subjective. I think Soo Line has one of the coolest lobbys I've been in, and it's my favorite residential project downtown by far. Great use of first-floor retail, lots of windows... It's simply a good, solid residential project. I doesn't really bother me that the decor isn't what I would've done - all buildings are like that for me.

Also, we're in the Nic's thread, so...
IllogicalJake wrote:
Soo Line's first two floors have 4 retail spaces - 2 ground, 2 skyway - all filled and open to the public, a public lobby and skyway area with frequent traffic, provides one of the most direct routes between two skyway tubes I've seen in a building, creates a great environment for passing through - keeping all areas well lit, playing ambient music, large glass storefronts... Probably the best residential building on the skyway system.

But nah, let's trash it because we don't care for Village Green's "City Apartments" decor. :roll:

Couple of things…

None of my arguments related to the “urbanism” of this project. I know that this site is dedicated to urbanism but there isn’t really another outlet to talk about design specific to this city. I try not to say superficial things like, “this sucks” or “that’s terrible.” When I have criticisms, I try to back them up with support for my opinion. For example, plastic plants were offered up as an example of “kitsch.”

The THREE STORY lobby space was an existing condition that the Soo Line (smartly) took advantage of/were probably made to retain by HPC. I haven’t seen the Nic yet so I can’t say but my experience is that it is VERY difficult to get developers these days to sacrifice rentable space in order to do a TWO STORY lobby/public space so I’m not surprised if the Nic lobby is less grand. That doesn’t make it right or let them off of the hook. The beautiful thing is that “the market” will be the judge - do prospective renters care about the lobby, connectivity, success of the retail spaces? We’ll see.

The skyway at the Soo Line was already in existence so I don’t know that it is fair to judge the skyway and retail success of the Soo Line against the JUST opened Nic. The “direct route” in the skyway at the Soo Line is great but it was already designed that way, it wasn’t like the current development designed this great connectivity.

The “best residential building on the skyway system” - small sample size is it not?

The Soo Line has created good retail space at the ground level and has retained an open three story lobby in a historic building. This isn’t exactly making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. With one “design” stroke, it is possible to make something function very well - “make it open.” Cheers to the design team for “making it open” (a slam dunk); then comes fit, finish, experience, tactile quality, etc and I don’t think these qualities are there. I offered an example in the earlier post of a project that does a great job of keying into historic elements without going into kitsch and artifice. You are right, design is subjective and it should be fun/entertaining to discuss and/or philosophize about. I’ll leave it at that so I don’t bore you any further.

I’m not an urban planner, I’m an architect so I’m going to look beyond adding people and connectivity. Those things are important but it doesn’t end there for me.

holmstar
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 161
Joined: October 29th, 2013, 2:59 pm

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby holmstar » September 19th, 2014, 9:25 am

I haven't been down there to take a look. Are you saying that there are no/few windows in the skyway on the south side of the building? This rendering makes it look like there would be a lot of windows:

Image

also, courtesy of MSPumpkins:
Image

John
Capella Tower
Posts: 2254
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 2:06 pm

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby John » September 19th, 2014, 9:48 am

The Nic on Fifth skyway level would have worked out better if it was also connected to the system parallel to Nicollet Mall going north/south. It would feed more people into the retail on the second level and create an busier intersection for the corridor going eastward to the 5th Street Towers. Really it's sort of a "dead end" cul de sac to the system which is unfortunate. Second level retail can't do well here.

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
Posts: 3785
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 6:59 am

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby Wedgeguy » September 19th, 2014, 10:31 am

There are plenty of windows on the south side, but the platform supports of the LRT and the setback make light getting into the space difficult. On top of that they have made the retail space walls sheet rock so there will be no light going out into the skyway. If those are temporary walls I don't know why they are wasting money putting up sheet rock on the interior of the retail.

I agree with John, this even with the Xcel building will not get that much traffic unless they make this an entry point that people will feel comfortable in. Without improvements this will be a ghost town skyway. You still have to walk to mid block to get into the Nic's skyway. Why bother when you can walk the same distance to the 510 Marquette, the 5th Street Towers, or the Soo Line Apartments to catch the skyway.
Last edited by Wedgeguy on September 21st, 2014, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4602
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby FISHMANPET » September 19th, 2014, 10:41 am

Wait Microsoft is building a building just for their spreadsheet software (Excel)?

holmstar
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 161
Joined: October 29th, 2013, 2:59 pm

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby holmstar » September 19th, 2014, 10:47 am

Wedgeguy wrote:There are plenty of windows on the south side, but the platform supports of the LRT and the setback make light getting into the space difficult. On top of that they have made the retail space walls sheet rock so there will be no light going out into the skyway. If those are temporary walls I don't know why they are wasting money putting up sheet rock on the interior of the retail.

I agree with John, this even with the Exel building will not get that much traffic unless they make this an entry point that people will feel comfortable in. Without improvement this will be a ghost town skyway.
I'd be really surprised if they weren't temporary. They are likely waiting for the leases to happen before finishing so that it can be customized to the business(es). It could have been plywood, but these days sheet rock is cheaper, plus it probably looks better than plywood while they're waiting for the leases to occur.

Minneboy
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 668
Joined: January 15th, 2013, 1:18 pm

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby Minneboy » September 19th, 2014, 11:04 am

FISHMANPET wrote:Wait Microsoft is building a building just for their spreadsheet software (Excel)?
Oh behave :)

lordmoke
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1391
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 1:39 pm
Location: Nicollet Island

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby lordmoke » September 19th, 2014, 11:45 pm

Crown is lit tonight. Two thin horizontal bands of incandescent colored lights. One at the top of the crown, one at the base.

John
Capella Tower
Posts: 2254
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 2:06 pm

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby John » September 20th, 2014, 4:13 pm

lordmoke wrote:Crown is lit tonight. Two thin horizontal bands of incandescent colored lights. One at the top of the crown, one at the base.
If they go by the rendering , there should be light across each of the black metal horizontal bands of the entire crown. But who knows. It seems like these lighting schemes presented in the initial renderings of these projects aren't showing up in the final construction. Makes you wonder if it's just a ploy to make it look better as it goes through the approval process with the city :?

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
Posts: 3785
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 6:59 am

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby Wedgeguy » September 21st, 2014, 12:10 pm

We have come now to expect bait and switch with designs that are put out there. Maybe it is time for a bit of guarantees in writing for these things to show up before approval.

John
Capella Tower
Posts: 2254
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 2:06 pm

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby John » September 21st, 2014, 8:54 pm

lordmoke wrote:Crown is lit tonight. Two thin horizontal bands of incandescent colored lights. One at the top of the crown, one at the base.
I saw this tonight on my way home from a riverfront bike ride. I'm pretty sure it's unfinished and they still need to fill in the remainder light bands between the base and top. Even with the two bands, I'm amazed at how much this improves the look of the building and the crown.

Minneboy
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 668
Joined: January 15th, 2013, 1:18 pm

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby Minneboy » September 21st, 2014, 9:54 pm

It took me 18 pages to see a rendering with the most current rendering. Alright on with the light show.

uptown82
Block E
Posts: 20
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 1:28 pm

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby uptown82 » September 22nd, 2014, 1:03 pm

Can someone take a pic of the crown lit up at night?

grant1simons2
IDS Center
Posts: 4301
Joined: February 8th, 2014, 11:33 pm
Location: Marcy-Holmes

Re: Nic on Fifth - (290' - 26 Stories)

Postby grant1simons2 » September 22nd, 2014, 8:21 pm

45% leased

http://www.startribune.com/housing/276402831.html

Also this article also talks about the plans for the Opus block and the dream of transforming northern Nicollet


Return to “Minneapolis - Downtown”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests