StoneBridge (2nd Street South & 11th Avenue South)

[Konante]

The August 27th CPC meeting has this on the agenda, with recommended approval and a site plan.

Looks like it would have a solid footprint on that site. Did anyone else notice the pond/rain garden sketched in the area next to where Izzy's will be? Not sure how I feel about that. One of those "good in theory" things that just ends up wasting space?

[Nathan]

Looks like it would have a solid footprint on that site. Did anyone else notice the pond/rain garden sketched in the area next to where Izzy's will be? Not sure how I feel about that. One of those "good in theory" things that just ends up wasting space?

In my experience going through a number of trainings working at Hedberg, Rain gardens do a really good job of filtering out toxins and limiting the amount of storm water run off. The do take up a lot of space though. Storm water run off could be captured more efficiently in an urban setting with a linear rain garden along a permeable walkway. (2nd and Marquette)

I'm also excited to see the playground... It's awesome that they are looking to attract families!

[John]

Finally, a home ownership development downtown! It's been a long time. My favorite thing about this project is it will better define the edge of Gold Medal park to the east making it feel more like an urban park. Has a slightly more modern design than Bridgewater and will work well with the contemporary buildings nearby.

[Nick]

Just two units left in Bridgewater! Hopefully something happens with this site soon.

[dmdhashw]

I think they may have started some excavating on the site. I've seen some dirt being moved that didn't seem related to the Izzy's construction yesterday.

[Nick]

If this is condos, wouldn't they generally need to hit a certain amount of units sold before starting construction?

[1200onthemall]

If this is condos, wouldn't they generally need to hit a certain amount of units sold before starting construction?

My understanding is with "self financing" that does not need to be considered, Jim Stanton has self financed in the past and I would assume this is true with this project.

[Nick]

If this is condos, wouldn't they generally need to hit a certain amount of units sold before starting construction?

My understanding is with "self financing" that does not need to be considered, Jim Stanton has self financed in the past and I would assume this is true with this project.

Sweet!

[John]

This is a very attractive project, and its great to see condos going up in downtown again. I also like they are trying to attract families with children. Another indicator of how evolved downtown has become as a residential district.

[mnmike]

I dont think any work is being done here...looks the same as it has for months.

[beykite]

Doesn't look like any excavation was done to me. I did notice a few large backhoes towards the back of the lot. Hopefully they are there to start work on Park Vista, but its also possible they are left over from the work at the Izzy's site.

[min-chi-cbus]

This is my 2nd or 3rd favorite proposed/current project in the city right now, behind or tied with 1368 LaSalle and 502 SE 2nd St! I want this up pretty badly too, easily #2 in terms of priorities on my "wants list"!!

[helsinki]

I like this, nice infill. I'm glad it's condos, too much rental can have a downside.

I like this also, and agree that it is nice infill.

I'm curious, though, what you mean when you say rental can have a downside. This gets repeated a lot, but I'm not sure exactly what it means. Dodgy tenants? A vague feeling that tenants are transient and therefore less interested in caring for the place where they live? This is silly. The 1368 LaSalle Ave tower is hardly going to be a rough place. Critiques of rental apartments point to bad apartment buildings, but this is shoddy reasoning. It's like saying 'short term lodging establishments' are dens of iniquity and vice. Yeah, maybe an interstate motel; but not the Four Seasons.

The criticism I hear most often is "You're not building equity when you rent." This is true, but it's an argument for the individual to consider, not a developer or a community. And even as far as the individual is concerned, renting doesn't place him on the hook for a quarter million dollars to a lender who wants to originate a loan, get it off the books fast by selling it to an institutional investor, and then have nothing to do with him. Normally, financial advisers warn against placing all your eggs in one basket. This common sense rule doesn't cease to apply just because we're talking about the real estate market (See: 2008). In short, how you finance your accomodation is irrelevant. The quality of the building will be determined by how much the inhabitants pay, not the form of financial or ownership mechanism employed. Indeed, condos may be even more harmful to communities, since they burden their owners with an illiquid asset (resulting in default and foreclosure in a depressed market).

The mindest blindly assigning unsavory attributes to rental apartments is contributing to our lack of density in Mpls; it is a notion that should be discarded.

[FISHMANPET]

There is a perceived notion (and I don't know how true it is) that homeowners have a personal stake in their community, but renters don't. I think it can be true in transiet areas like student communities. Students aren't going to participate in neighborhood org meetings, so the homeowners get an unnaturally large say. Even in a place like 1368, the residents could be transient (companies could rent the apartments for long term housing for visting employees, for example). But I've lived in my same apartment building for 6 years, which is longer than some people stay in a home, so it's pretty hard to make an across the board statement that owners are good and renters are bad because of how long they stay in one place.

[mplsjaromir]

Owning a home generally means people have a very undiversifed investment portoflio, usually just their home. That is not the fault of the home or home ownership, just what commonly happens.

[SixOneTwo]

Doesn't look like any excavation was done to me. I did notice a few large backhoes towards the back of the lot. Hopefully they are there to start work on Park Vista, but its also possible they are left over from the work at the Izzy's site.

Those backhoes have been on the lot for over a year now, but yes it does not appear that any excavation work has been done thus far (see below, from Sunday). That said, I am 100% confident work will begin soon here. Stanton has the $$$ and Bridgewater is nearly full.

[Tyler]

Owning vs renting discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=184

[helsinki]

Owning a home generally means people have a very undiversifed investment portoflio, usually just their home. That is not the fault of the home or home ownership, just what commonly happens.

Exactly.

Is it wise to tie up all your money in one asset whose value depends on the perceived quality of your neighborhood? No. Especially when that asset is practically indistinguishable from other offerings. How different are 3 br 2 bath homes in Chaska and Fridley? Not sure, but not really that much to justify pouring your life savings into it.

Last thought (as I don't want to hijack the Park Vista thread): viewing real estate as an investment is a uniquely terrible idea - both for the buyer as well as for the market as a whole; it leads to massive distortions. Your home is where you live. If you want to make capital with capital, buy bonds or equities or go to Mystic Lake. I recommend "The Big Short" by Michael Lewis for a truly terrifying peek into the abyss of nonsense that has been peddled to middle America in this department since mortgages were first securitized in the 1970s.

[helsinki]

Owning vs renting discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=184

I see it; sorry.

[helsinki]

One aspect of this project that I really like is that it has 3 BR units (SW Journal said this; it is correct, right?). Especially with the proximity to Gold Medal Park, this will be one of the few new projects downtown that is truly attractive to families with children. Downtown needs kids and families; a disproportionate percentage of singles and empty nesters is (1) bad for density - one person, maximum two people per unit, and (2) inimical to fostering community - kids bring adults together, it's true. On the flipside, families with children are horrendous NIMBY's, but I still think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.